chorlton

Perhaps I should not ask but...

Veterinary student screamed 'my brakes have gone' as she careered to her death at 40mph down one of Britain's steepest roads - Mirror Online

I am more than rubbish at expressing my emotions about such an event but reading the article I am left with a feeling that mistakes, whatever they may be, have been made and they have not been properly considered.

...

AnkleWork

It's a solid bet that mistakes were made but I'm not sure how one would know that they have not been properly considered. Seems an ordinary tragedy, no? Inexperienced cyclist down a 25% grade at 40mph probably didn't use the front brake. Using the rear brake alone would have a much diminished effect on such an incline, thus the rider's perception of "my brakes have gone." It does not seem likely that two independent brake systems would fail simultaneously at exactly the worst time, and the forensic evidence does not support a brake failure.

Excerpt:
" . . . had owned the Genesis Equilibrium bike for eight months and had only been out on it a few times. . . had only ridden her new touring bike a couple of times . . . "

"After getting lost, their 25 mile ride turned into almost a 40 mile trip which took them down the notorious Winnats Pass . . . "

'Detective Constable Andrew Prince of Derbyshire Police's collision investigation unit, concluded there were "no significant issues" with the brakes but said the rear tyre was "significantly under-inflated." . . . And he suggested that her inexperience of road cycling, fatigue, and an under-inflated rear tyre may have all played a part in the tragedy.'

"Trevor Jones, a vehicle examiner with the force, said he could find no major faults with the brakes although he could not test them fully because of the damage the bike sustained."

"But Mr Nieto said that the evidence heard at the inquest showed no serious fault with the brakes on August's bike."

xenologer

Wrong forum?
belongs in Advocacy and Safety

or are you looking for a Mechanic's Input?
the article is too vague for any meaningful statements from a mechanic.

maddog34

i'd suspect a lack of maintenance. 105 or better brakes, and Genesis sells a disc model, too.......

probably went completely out of adjustment on the really steep downhill.... levers reached the bars, and a tragedy occurred.

Was it raining? anyone else recall running out of lever travel when using the old dia-compe suicide levers in the rain? or even on dry days with those panic levers...

getting lost requires a dose of panic, btw.... just sayin'...

and the "beginner" factor... i've seen some serious over-lubings of chains..... which then gets onto the brake tracks...

kevindsingleton 

Hmm.


"Mr Patel said after setting off August noticed a problem with the quick release lever on her front brake, but they sorted the issue out and carried on their route."


Sad tale. It's amazing that we haven't had to deal with more government regulation and "Ralph Nader" interference with our bicycles, given situations like this.

Andrew R Stewart 

Kevin- I take it you didn't live through the 1970s when the US bike market was required to meet government regs for the first big time. All sorts of standards of strength, dimension and visibility were enacted. We saw major changes to wheel attachment (no more wing nuts), passive safety (reflector presence at first then their reflectivity and pattern next), frame/fork load capacity, brake system ability (skid rear tire on dry pavement), instructional info (owner's manuals with various function guides) and a lot more. Years later this gov. effort continues with the CPSC now running the show.


Actually these days the Euro market regs are the front runners of control and spec IIRC. My coworker spent 6 years in England as a pro wrench and tells of mechanics having to meet certifications to achieve insurance and business requirements.


Lastly there's all the rider focused regs, like helmet laws for kids and following each state's bike riding laws (which are different in some cases from auto driving laws).


So from my experience we already have well regulated manufacturing, markets and activity. Andy.

kevindsingleton 

Andrew, I did "live" through that period, but I wasn't "bicycle aware"; I was pre-adolescent! I rode my Western Flyer into the ground, then graduated to a 3-speed IGH Raleigh that I never liked, but would love to have, now. I remember some bikes had reflectors, but some didn't, and every bike had to go over the plywood ramp. I never thought about bicycle safety, beyond avoiding cars. I rode a neighbor's Free Spirit (barefoot, with those spikey steel pedals), all summer long, and never shifted gears, not even once.



Still, given stories like the subject of this conversation, I remain surprised that we don't suffer even more.

Looking back at things like seat belts, and car seats for babies, and looking forward to things like proposals for "smart g*ns", it seems that bicycles have avoided some of the more serious regulations that some consumer products have endured, especially those that are marketed towards children, even if that's not exclusive.

I'm not proposing more regulation, of course. I'm just surprised that it hasn't already been much worse. I still see "skate parks" as the most dangerous areas on the planet, and not an adult in sight when the kids are out there risking life and limb for a sensation. Freedom is cool.

Crankycrank

I don't know why anyone would want to make any determinations with the info given. A very sad and tragic death. We can speculate but for what reason unless you have all the facts. This just feeds all the drivel that happens when people like to form opinions with little or bad information.

Andrew R Stewart 

I also have worked in the ski industry. If you want to see an ironic arena look no farther. Millions of dollars spent to protect the industry from their customers using the products in highly risky ways


This sad story and talk about regulations reminds me of another sad one. When I had my LBS in Cleveland there was a 16 year old female who died from an impact with a pick up truck. The local media reported on the story for a few days. My customers talked to me for a few weeks about it. The typical comment was "she should have worn a helmet" (and she did suffer substantial head injuries). My reply was "Well maybe but she shouldn't have run the light and into the path of the truck". Harsh, maybe but the real cause was her actions when riding, not failing to don a lid. Andy

squirtdad

A co-workers sister was training solo for an event and went off the road on steep descent. She was able to throw her helmet on the road and was found. Major shoulder damage. In this case the road was one where on training rides they were instructed to walk down the hill.

Iride01 

I have to agree it's pointless to make suppositions about a person's death based on an article in the media.

The only thing that could be speculated about is what investigators might need to ask and look at.

chorlton

You are probably right.

As a 'hobby' mechanic I take old lugged steel bikes and in effect completely rebuild them, down to bare frame, forks off and a bag of other bits, and back up again, up to and including rebuilding the wheels. I know a little but I am not 'all that'. When it's back together I have to spend a bit of time making sure things work properly and do not ride on anything other than flat roads until I am confident it is not going to collapse under me.

After that known hills are still slightly squeaky bum but...

In the case mentioned. Prior to ride... Fit new inner tubes, have to get the wheels off the bike to do so... How many threads in 'mechanics' mention problems with pinches and seating. Apparently later they have problems with quick release lever on the brake, not on the hub. Both would/should have been used to remove the wheels in order to fit new inner tubes. There may be some other 'what ifs'...

All of it hurts. I used to ride Rivelin Valley Road joining the A57 to The Ladybower then via Hathersage and Foxhouses back into Sheffield again... after being taken around it as pillion on an RD250. First time on the bike I was brakes slow and then faster.

Winnats even without the gradient looks evil.

I guess... If you or someone else does major stuff to your bike spend some time making sure it is good on safe roads before you ride it elsewhere. Do not ride it elsewhere when you do not know what elsewhere looks like. Do not follow others.

Sigh.

TakingMyTime

No matter what the circumstances or reason, it's said to see such a young girl who had so much of life still ahead of her passing away,

HerrKaLeun

Probably impossible to determine exact cause from the article. I looked up that pass and it has 28° and is closed to vehicles over 7.5 tons for that reason.

However, the officers quoted probably are right to not suspect actual brake failure. with a long grade like that normal brakes seem to be overburdened due to heat fading. Assume some cheap pads, not perfectly adjusted brakes etc. and you see how that can happen. A long 28° decline would call for 180+ mm front rotors and good hydraulic brakes IMHO... don't think most bikes have that.

Obviously we will never know if the girls made a mistake. But with the prevalent bad practice to declare rear brakes the main brakes, and not teach people how to brake properly and scare them off the front brake.... i can see how she may not have used the front brake as intended. Hence her thinking the brakes failed. But this is just speculation....

Sad story....

AnkleWork

What indication is there of "problems with pinches and seating"? How would problems with pinches and seating cause an inability to stop after forty miles of riding? Why ignore the obvious to look for the what-ifs?

FBinNY 

We have absolutely nothing to go on, except for the panicked scream about no brakes.

Apparently (according to the article) the brakes were examined after the crash, and seemed OK.

However, while I don't rule a mechanical issue out, I suspect that this was a case of an inexperienced rider being over tired and/or exceeding her skill level and maybe panicking.

Brake failure is fairly rare, and for both brakes, either of which could have checked her speed effectively, to fail at the same time stretches credulity.

If I had to, I could imagine a scenario where she started the descent in the hands over hoods position many people adopt most of the time, and simply lacked the hand strength to brake effectively that way, and was too panicked to change position once she realized she was in trouble.

Kimmo

Having a look at the bike in question, it has 11s 105, but with cheaper brakes substituted. Still, they're perfectly serviceable dual pivots. I concur with the folks saying she was probably scared of the front brake, possibly to the point it didn't occur to her to use it. She almost certainly didn't have any idea how to prevent overheating on a descent too.

That being said, there's also a good chance her brakes could have been set up to work better.