yannisg

I have been using tubeless tires since 2011 on all my brevets and races. I cover about 3000k a year on tubeless tires. I don't use them for training rides to reduce costs. I use Stan's sealant in them, and have only had one flat because in that particular case the sealant had dried and I hadn't replenished it.
For instance, yesterday, I was on a 200k rainy brevet with a group of 8 riders, and we got 9 flats in the group. With another rider we were the only ones that didn't get a flat. So in my opinion, tubeless tires drastically reduce flats. There is no fun changing an inner tube on a wet cold rainy brevet in the middle of the night.
Furthermore, I use the tubeless tires on all my races because I don't have an escort with extra wheels so if I get a flat I'll be out of the time limit.
On the down side, the tubeless tires can be quite a hassle cleaning rims and tires from the residue, and sealing the tire on the rim. I use a removable valve core to inject the sealant so I don't need to break the rim tire seal to add the sealant. Getting the tire to seal on the rim can sometimes be a challenge.
If you willing to put the time into them they are definitely the way to go.
Recently.
The Bongrader sealant clumped in one area, and caused an unbalanced wheel. Even though I was rotating the wheel regularily when not riding. Stan's sealant does not seem to clump so easily.
Once a year, or if the sealant gums up too much I'll remove the tire, and clean rim and tire thoroughly.
Now comes the frustrating part.
When I remove a used tire, and re-install it I have a hard time sealing it to the rim even though I am using a air compressor. I do not used levers to install the tire to make sure I don't damage the tire lip.
At this point I am ready to dump the whole road tubeless tire endeavour regardless of the flat benefits. After numerous breaks, attempts, and by adding extra sealant I am finally able to seal the tire.
There have been one or two occasions where sealing the tire is impossible, and I have to install a new tubeless tire even thought the one I cannot seal is fairly new without sign of wear (500k to 1000k).
I am using Shimano Ultegra WH-6800 TL with Hutchinson fusion 4 and 5 tubeless tires. Fusion 5 is no improvement in this respect.
I haven't experimented with other tubeless tires.
If I hadn't invested in the equipment; that is, air compressor, core removable valves sealant etc I would probably start using a robust heavier tube tire.
Any comments or recommendation is appreciated.

TiHabanero

I have seen this same issue when remounting a used tubeless tire. In fact, saw it just this past Saturday at the shop. Ended up with a new tire because the used one simply will not seal.

Got hit with the nasty, old, stinky, wet, slimed tubeless tire when I suggested he go back to tubes. Guess the guy really likes them and is willing to put up with the hassle.

yannisg

Thanks for the response.
I omitted to mention that the tires I am using are 700X23 because a larger tire will not fit in my old Trek frame.
Maybe with 25 or 28 it would be less of an issue. As i said, I have no issues with sealing a used MTN tire.

ljsense

That was an interesting and informative post, but what I quoted above is the part I'm not sure I understand. I'd use whatever allows you to fix a flat and finish your event. If you can't be sure you can fix a flat on your tubeless tires, because they won't seat again or whatever reason, I'd for sure use traditional tires and tubes, even if it means you're more likely to have to stop to change a tube.

And since you're running 700x23, it just seems like you'll have less hassles overall with regular tires and tubes. I'm on the fence with tubes at about 700x28 -- above that, tubeless is great.

bakerjw

I love my road tubeless tires. They do spin up a bit slower; however, I've not flatted in quite a while. Orange seal all the way for me. With glitter.

unterhausen

kinda funny that you mention Stan's doesn't clump as easily as bontrager. I believe you, but my LBS has a collection of Stan's squids hanging from the ceiling. Some of them are quite large, almost baseball sized

yannisg

Thanks for responding.
In the few races that I do take part in, at this point, I finish within in 10 minutes of the cut-off time, and as the years pass it will probably get reduced further.
If I was using tube tires in these races I wouldn't have time to fix the flat and finish within the time limit.
However, with tubeless tires topped up properly with sealant the chance of getting a flat are reduced significantly.
I have only gotten one flat in all the years I've been using tubeless, and that was because the sealant was low.
Of course, if I tore a tubeless tire, which I have twice in the past, it would take me much longer to install the tube with the tire boot.
In that case the race would be definitely lost.
I have never been able to seal a used tubeless tire, still in good condition, with a floor pump. Whereas, I am almost always able to seal a new tubeless without sealant with a floor pump.
I hope this clarifies my logic.

Racing Dan

"When I remove a used tire, and re-install it I have a hard time sealing it to the rim "

GPLama on YT had this exact issue. The response was something akin to "go new or go home". It appears its known issue, partially caused by the tyre sticking to them selves from old sticky sealant. Maybe I can find the video. ...

yannisg

Yes, Stan's gums-up, but I have never had it clump to the point where it unbalances the wheel like the Bontrager did.
I try to spin my tubeless wheels every few days. If I do notice that their are coming to test at a particular point on the bottom I put this point on top to reduce the chance that the sealant clumping. I have only started doing this recently. It's a bit of a hassle.
I use another bike for training with tubes, and only use the one with the tubeless wheels on races and brevets so there is some significant time that tubeless tires are sitting idle.

Racing Dan

Enjoy the show, from around 6:00 :-)

DrIsotope

Tubeless for all of my tires. 2018 was particularly rough on tires for me-- but I still haven't had to boot n' tube a tire since June 2, 2018, which is ~8,000 miles ago. I ran over a decent-sized chunk of a Grey Goose bottle, which made a sidewall-to-sidewall slash that would have destroyed any tire, tubeless or otherwise.

I tried a set of Hutchinson Fusion 3s, which to this day stand as "the most difficult to mount tires of all time." Same wheels, no less, WH-6800s. It probably took me 30 minutes to get those tires on the rims. I ended up losing one to a really bad cut, and much to my surprise the tube went in with zero fuss. Took no longer than putting a tube in any other tire.

I've had a single instance of an unseated tubeless tire refusing to reseat, a 700x35 Panaracer Gravelking SK. It needed the compressor and some finagling. Other than that, I've had no call to unseat a tubeless tire on the road other than to boot 'n tube a destroyed tire in order to make it home. That is, never needed to unseat a tubeless tire (in the field) that was in otherwise working order.

yannisg

"Go new or go home" is quite an expensive proposition.
This issue, of sealing used tires is probably, in my experience, a little easier if the tires and rims have been cleaned.

yannisg

I agree, there is no need to unseat a tire in the field.
I unseat the tubeless tires once a year and clean tire and rim because the sealant has gummed-up. It is quite a job to remove this gummy substance from the tire.
I have had, in the past, difficulties mounting the new Hutchinson fusion 3 tires to the rim by hand. Recently, I have been more successful. Maybe, there is some difference from batch to batch in the diameter.
One other thing is that I have to tighten the valve ring a lot to reduced any air leaks especially on a used valve. To untighten the valve ring on the road to install a tube you might need a small tool to unscrew the valve ring.
Maybe, as I mentioned before, wider tubeless tires might be easier to seal. My experience is limited to 700X23

DrIsotope

I've swapped/rotated tubeless tires on my wife's bike several times without issue. But then again, I have a big ol' compressor and can hit it with +6cfm @ 90psi, and use bubble juice as mounting fluid, not a massive bucket of soapy water. While the video guy makes some valid points, he's also making things a bit hard on himself. I too run Gavias, and they have all mounted without issue-- which is as much the relationship between tire and rim as anything else. Some tires simply do not like some rims. I just put on a new pair of 700x35 Hutchinson Overides on Monday, and the entire process, from removing the old, cleaning, the mounting the new tires, took 20-25 minutes. So it's not Hutchinson. Maxxis Padrones can be real bears to mount as well.

yannisg

Racing Dan,
Thanks for the video

rosefarts

I clean the bead and rim with alcohol. It seems to help a little. I've recently started with Skinny Strippers, so in theory, I can take the whole tire off the rim without cracking the seal. I don't know if it works, I haven't tried yet.

Do you use worms? So you can plug most holes without a boot?

DrIsotope

The front tire I just replaced had a Dynaplug in it for about 1,800 miles. I had pulled a chunk of glass out that I swear was the size of a popcorn kernel. I don't hesitate to recommend Dynaplugs, as they won't blow out.

yannisg

I have tried various liquids to get the gummy residue off the tires and rims. I found that warm water, a nylon hard brush, and a lot of elbow grease is the best.
What are Skinny strippers?
I assume you are using worms, and Dynaplugs on mountain bike tires.
The only time I have use a boot on my tubeless tires was when it got ripped, and I installed a tube. This was just to get me home.

DrIsotope

My Dynaplug was in a 70x35, routinely run around 70psi. With my road tires, punctures come in two flavors: so small they seal before I know they've happened, or catastrophic, resulting in the loss of the tire. It would be real nice if people would recycle those 100% recyclable glass bottles, instead of pitching them into the gutter.

jimincalif

I carry a Dynaplug kit, I've never had to use it fortunately. I have one 700x38 Schwalbe G-One All Around that's a bit weepy in a few spots. The Stans will seal it up, but it seems to work a bit and lose air again after riding. It holds well enough to complete a ride. It's nearly worn out, so I haven't bothered to plug it or otherwise deal with it.