Pcampeau

Couldn’t resist this one. Not sure exactly what year it’s from but feel free to tell me if you know. To me it looks like early to mid 70’s. The date codes on the Campy Record hubs will not be useful as the seller purchased the wheels on eBay a few years ago. Record hubs would have been on here but not these ones specifically. I like that the 36 hole high flange hubs are re-laced to 700c clinchers, something I hardly ever see and have been meaning to do with a few of my tubular wheel sets. I also like that it came with 32mm Compass tires that still have some life left in them. All in all a great wheel set! The Sugino Crankset will be useful. It’s not my favorite looking triple but it’s a good part and it’s 48t, 38t, 28t gearing will come in handy, perhaps elsewhere. I think the only parts original on the bike may be Campy 2 pin seat post, and Universal 68 side pull calipers. The headset has a couple of spacers and only the nut is Campy. The Aero brake levers will be going away. The mountain bike derailleurs just don’t belong and look terrible. Like most Windsors I’ve seen the paint hasn’t held up well. Lots of scrapes and even some large areas of missing paint. The Regina Extra Oro with a 14,15,16,18, 20t count is not going to be useful for me unless I’m just riding around the neighborhood​​​​​. In the past I’ve done some work on this bike for the previous owner so I know the grease and bearings are fresh and that the seat pillar and stem are not stuck. I seem to remember Nuovo Record derailleurs we’re on here but they didn’t make it into the sale (that’s okay, I have more, along with the Campagnolo crankset). I may even have a set of Universal brake levers someplace if I can just find some hoods. I haven’t decided if it’s a keeper or if these parts will be harvested and the frame sold off. I’ll ride it for awhile before deciding. It’s a pretty fun rider I’ll say that.

As found. I haven’t even cleaned it yet.


Some of the decals are fragmented.

The lug work and chrome look nice!



Paint issues to be sure. This is the worst spot and I’ll have to do something about it.

At least the chrome fork crown is nice!

More paint problems.

Kilroy1988 

Very cool bike. I remember when I was just getting into C&V I was really attracted to these... I'd still buy one if I had the chance.

Talk about a sharp headtube angle! The clearance for the front tire by the down tube almost makes me think it must have front end damage but nothing in the photos indicates that... It could be the angle you took it at, but it does appear as if the top tube isn't level to the ground. Is that right?

-Gregory

Trakhak

Agreed. The head angle looks like at least 80 degrees, but there's no obvious damage. The OP had better avoid potholes, though, to be on the safe side - i.e., to avoid flexing the fork back and having the tire ram into the down tube.

Just looked at the top photo again, and you're right about the top tube appearing to slope upward toward the front of the bike. An easy check for the OP: bring the bike and a level back to the spot where the photo was taken, confirm that the ground and the metal pipe behind the bike are level, and then check to top tube to see whether it's level. If it is indeed sloping upward, that'd be evidence of front end damage.

Pcampeau

I noticed the angles too but I can’t find any damage to the area around the head lugs at all. No bulges, rippling, or missing paint. Actually that’s the one paint area on the bike that’s still quite nice. I agree there may be damage but it’s riding nicely. If I do find damage when I disassemble it, it will become the parts bike I needed anyway. I’m not married to owning one of these and the price was right for that. I’ll find out more when I get it apart.

cudak888 

I seem to see a small curvature that would suggest the front end has been pushed in, but I also realize lens distortion is a thing. However, at least in my experience, I'd say that it's probably taken a front-ender, even without any rippling or bulging visible.

The lack of visible damage is definitely in your favor though. If you can drop the fork and pull the headtube out, I'll bet it'll return to the proper angle without any evidence that it was ever in a front-ender.

-Kurt

Pcampeau

​​​​​​
I do appreciate you’re opinion, thank you! I’ve seen your head tube pulling technique. If I can find a vacant fence post stuck in some concrete I’m not opposed to trying it, if it’ll save the frame.

mpetry912 

for reference the Cinelli stem is 73 degrees and it's sloping downhill.

Possible the fork is bent but hard to tell

/markp

roadcrankr

My take, as well. Fairly easy to remove the fork and start there.
Very nice find, despite that. Fun project.

machinist42

There should be a Serial Number on the NDS of the Seat Tube Lug; what might that be?

Do you have a picture of the underside of the Bottom Bracket Shell?

(Though it may be irrelevant to the dating of this example: is the steerer tube "rifled?")

Pcampeau

Here you go. I can’t make out the first digit, maybe 6? Then it’s 183.

machinist42

Have only observed the nine holed bottom bracket shell on examples from 1973 or '74, so going to guess that first digit is a "4."
(The flat left side of the stamping would not be consistent with the curvy left side of a "6" or with the very vertical "6" of the size stamping.)
The remnants of the Columbus Sticker are consistent with a 1974 build, as the Dove went white in '75.

fishboat

I have frame 7219, Windsor Pro, 1979 I think. I bought it new for $600. Full Campy group on it. Ran sewups for a few years until I switched over to 700c clincher wheels. I had the same silver paint..never cared for silver so I had it painted a couple years after I bough it. Also had the Campy bits anodized black. Mine is a 60cm frame. I gotta say..I too think the front end of yours has been pushed back.

Wonderful riding bike. Columbus SL tubing. I ride mostly 853 tubed and titanium tubed Lemonds these days...pretty tough to tell the difference between them and my old Windsor.

repechage

remove the top tube cable clips and take a straightedge to the top and bottom of the top tube, note by the way the cracked paint about at the end of the butter region.
custom by crash, might pull out though

cudak888 

Look for cut-off fence posts or similar steel-reinforced holes in concrete (e.g., cut-off and abandoned conduit). An actual fence post itself won't help as it's too big to fit in the tube and not stiff enough. You'll need a solid rod of steel to put in the fence post hole.

It's worth it though, and it's such a nice frame with so little evidence of front end damage that it's a no-brainer. She'll come out looking perfect.

-Kurt

3alarmer

...these were built with pretty steep angles. But I'm not 100% sure what's going on with yours.

machinist42

Note the Head Tube Angle is mentioned in this mid-70s Bikeology Catalog. No idea if it's applicable for your sized example.

Source.

Pcampeau

Wow! If mine looked anywhere near as yours it would be a keeper for sure.

Kabuki12

#1837 1973
Nice find, hopefully the frame is ok , it does look a bit steep. I’ve had mine for quite a while and love riding it. I see that yours doesn’t have the holes in the lugs, does it have water bottle bosses?

3alarmer

...thanks. They are pretty good bikes, worth salvaging to ride. I used to have a pretty sweet setup over at the bike co-op here, for pulling head tubes straighter in cases like this.
I wish I had pictures. It involves mounting a pipe in the pipe jaws of a firmly mounted bench vise. The pipe is angled down, using the rotation feature in the vise..

You put some sacrificial cups in both ends of the head tube, to prevent ovalization. Then slip the frame head tube over the pipe, with the frame upside down.

Then you stick either an axle, or better a scrap hub you don't care about, in the rear dropouts. Take a 6 foot length of 2x4, and place it over the hub in the rear dropouts, catching one end of it under the edge of the workbench. Then you can lever the rear of the frame down, pulling to reverse the damage that was inflicted by running into something. The length of the 2x4 gives you excellent leverage, and a great deal of control over the bending.

I think the vise is still in place over there, but I doubt anyone left remembers how to use it in this way. Maybe I'll remember to take some pictures ?

Pcampeau

It does.

Bad Lag

That head tube angle is amazingly STEEP!
Tire-to-down tube clearance is really minimal (~3/8" under static conditions). Hard braking while going straight down hill, especially on a bumpy road, could be a problem.
Toe rub will be an issue, too. Be careful of that, especially when doing tight U-turns.

ETA - I now see the discussion is all about this. Until this morning, I looked only at the pictures.

repechage

Shows geometry, but curious geography.

SJX426 

Going back to the first pic, I can see a slight bend looking at the bottom of the TT just behind the point of the lug.

Definitely worth bending back. Check the straightness with a level or long, 18," rule. Also check the steerer for straightness. The legs look just a tad bit bent too. See if you can identify the offset for the DO and take it there.
An example of a fork that was straightened back to spec.
WP_20150430_008 on Flickr
P1040434 on Flickr

Example of a bent steerer.
P1030228 on Flickr
And the fork crown.
P9051190 on Flickr

bikingshearer 

Maybe the folks at Bikecology knew something I don't, but I always thought Mexico was 100% in the northern hemisphere. Of course, I went to California public schools, so what do I know . . . .

Pcampeau

I’ve got a frame alignment gauge and a set of dropout alignment tools, I’ll be checking everything. I’m definitely going to try pulling the head tube out and I’ve found a solidly anchored abandoned pipe in the alley behind a neighboring garage where I’ll make my attempt. I’m really curious about how you straightened that steerer tube back into alignment? That fork looked wrecked.