AvantGarden

Hi,
I bought used SHIMANO DURA ACE WH-9000-C50-TU. At least... I think they are SHIMANO DURA ACE WH-9000-C50-TU because they looks the same as these seen on google and they are fully carbon made tubulars.
However, on the wheel itself I see the tagging :
Front : Dura Ace WH-9000 LC SP-13
Rear : Dura Ace WH-9000 KF SP-13
The wheels do not turn as smoothly as I think they should and the springs are rusty.

Can anybody (@gfk_velo :-)...) provide relevant part numbers for :
1. Front wheel bearings (preferably ceramic ?).
1. Rear wheel bearings (preferably ceramic ?).
3. Axle springs

Thanks

Iride01 

See if one of these EV's (exploded views) matches what you have.

You'll probably find that the part numbers are the same for most of the bearings and sets with retainers. But I didn't look to compare.

https://si.shimano.com/en/manual/sea..._model=wh-9000

Other info on Shimano stuff can be found here... https://si.shimano.com/en/#/


Springs? In the free hub or the quick release?

AvantGarden

Thanks iride01
The following EVs have all the parts I need...

https://si.shimano.com/en/pdfs/ev/WH...TU-F-3343A.pdf
https://si.shimano.com/en/pdfs/ev/WH...TU-R-3344A.pdf

KerryIrons

Just for your reference, ceramic bearings are appropriate in very high speed, high temperature, and acidic environments. None of that applies to bicycles. Ceramic bearings on bicycles are marketing hype, not performance improvement. Once the bearings are properly lubricated and adjusted, that is as good as the hubs will get unless there is actual damage.

When you reference "axle springs" are you talking about the centering springs on quick release axles?

AvantGarden

I am referring to the Volute Springs.

The EVs are a bit confusing...


Front wheel :

https://si.shimano.com/en/pdfs/ev/WH...TU-F-3343A.pdf

Part #3 Y23321000. Volute Spring. Does the part number include 2 springs for both sides ?

Part #6 Y4BN98030. Ball Retainer (5/32"). Does the part number include 2 bearing sets for both sides ? Does the "retainer" include the balls ?



Rear Wheel :

https://si.shimano.com/en/pdfs/ev/WH...TU-R-3344A.pdf

Part #3 Y23321000. Volute Spring. Does the part number include 2 springs for both sides ?

Part #6 Y00091270 "Stainless Ball (3/16") 22 pcs". The EV itself says "13 pcs" which does not correlate to the 22 pcs of the part#. I would expect 26...

Part #7 Y25R98080 Ball Retainer (3/16") Do I need this ? Do they get worn out ?

smd4

Ceramic bearings are far smoother. And far lighter than steel bearings. And don't rust.

I'll take 'em, no matter the "hype."

Andrew R Stewart 

As to the springs- most all shops have a misc. parts box where they put bits that come off repairs but could still be used. QR springs are one of these items. If fact no springs are even needed, they are much like a threadless headset top cap. Once the QR (headset bearing adjustment) is set the springs (or top cap) are just going along for the ride while adding zilch to the system. Andy

dedhed

See Above

roadcrankr

Shimano produces high quality hubs. Holds true for the bearings, as well.
From my experience, I highly doubt rust exists, unless someone totally thrashed these.
Most likely, some grit got in there and these require a simple rebuild.

Koyote

I guess someone's gotta believe the marketers...

smd4

I guess someone has to believe steel is better in every instance.

But being lighter and smoother than steel isn't really "hype." They're more like...you know...facts. Pesky, no doubt.

Koyote

If you're referring to me, you are incorrect. I think that ceramic bearings are surely a better choice for high-speed (e.g., 10,000 rpm) applications in relatively clean environments.

​​​​​​They're lighter by around 5 grams per wheel, depending on the specific bearings. So, yes, that's a fact. But once you pack all the bearings in grease, they're not smoother than steel. Oh, and they might actually be less durable than steel bearings, and they might also damage steel races. A little reading.

Here's a challenge: find a source, other than a company that sells ceramic bearings, that affirms their usefulness in bicycle parts.

smd4

I didn't read any company's marketing materials. Ten grams is ten grams. Adding grease doesn't make ceramic bearings rougher than steel. And by the time I "dent" my races using ceramic bearings, my bike will likely be in the landfill somewhere.

Not worries. Will continue to run them to no appreciable detriment. Have fun.

Koyote

It seems weird to worry about ten grams when you're on an old steel-framed bike...If weight is a concern, you might want to put your money toward a frame that's a few pounds lighter.

And I never claimed that adding grease would make ceramic bearings "rougher" than steel...Rather, it eliminates any (theoretical or measurable) advantage of ceramic bearings in the friction measurements, as explained by an authority in the linked article that you didn't read.

Ceramic bearings won't necessarily create "appreciable detriment" on a bike; they're just pointless, like tits on a bull.

smd4

I could buy a unicycle that is many pounds lighter. You don't get the point. Typical.

The point is making MY CUERRENT BIKE as light as I CAN MAKE IT. Simply, really. For most people.

I read it. Shocking that I'm not convinced by one article. I also read where you stated, "once you pack all the bearings in grease, they're not smoother than steel," which obviously implies that they become less smooth than steel once greased. Which isn't true. Whether or not they have grease does not affect their smoothness or roundness, which is inherent in the material itself.

Nice Glory reference.

Koyote

You mean the movie? Never saw it. "Useless as tits on a bull" is a pretty old and common simile.

dedhed

Every has to figure out their own cost/benefit ratio of grams to dollars

Dave Mayer

Buy yourself a package of the same-size Grade 25 steel balls. Stainless not required. If the inside of your hubs is such a watery mess that you need rust-resistant balls, then you have much bigger problems. Such as using a pressure washer to clean your bike, or driving at highway speeds in a rainstorm with the bike on a rack.

Pop the old balls out of the plastic retainer and press in the new ones.

KerryIrons

If your steel ball bearings are rusting, then there is something seriously wrong with your maintenance procedures. Ceramic bearings will save maybe 10 grams per hub, which is meaningless. Ceramic bearings are "smoother" than steel bearings only if they are higher grade than the steel bearings. You clearly have bought the hype.

smd4

Then my bike is 20 grams lighter than a similarly-spec'ed bike. Whether you like it or not, it all adds up. And I didn't say my bearing were rusting. Nothing on my bike is ever rusty.

davidad

[QUOTE=AvantGarden;23058595]Hi,
I bought used SHIMANO DURA ACE WH-9000-C50-TU. At least... I think they are SHIMANO DURA ACE WH-9000-C50-TU because they looks the same as these seen on google and they are fully carbon made tubulars.
However, on the wheel itself I see the tagging :
Front : Dura Ace WH-9000 LC SP-13
Rear : Dura Ace WH-9000 KF SP-13
The wheels do not turn as smoothly as I think they should and the springs are rusty.

Can anybody (@gfk_velo :-)...) provide relevant part numbers for :
1. Front wheel bearings (preferably ceramic ?).
1. Rear wheel bearings (preferably ceramic ?).
3. Axle springs

Thanks[/
Ceramics are a waste of money for our use. You can replace the balls in the retainers if they show excessive wear. If the balls have their factory finish, they can be reused.

AvantGarden

Can anybody recommend an online shop in Europe that has a large stock of Shimano part numbers and good pricing ?

smd4

A waste for you, perhaps. Do the 9000 series hubs use retainers??

Crankycrank

Where are you located? I believe Shimano has different agreements with sellers doing business outside different countries and/or the EU.

AvantGarden

In my country the importer has very poor stock so I need to rely on shops in Europe...