Which Panniers ?
11-20-02, 12:53 PM
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Which Panniers ?
:confused:
There are numerous companies producing an array of panniers, Karrimor, Ortlieb, Vau Dee to name but a few. Has anyone got any preferences ?
I'm looking for something that will take 60 lts rear, with probably more on the rear, like an additional box or something ! I'd also want a good size up on the front, giving me a greater range between areas of ........... civilisation and storage space for winter gear.
Any info for this newbie, greatfully appreciated.
There are numerous companies producing an array of panniers, Karrimor, Ortlieb, Vau Dee to name but a few. Has anyone got any preferences ?
I'm looking for something that will take 60 lts rear, with probably more on the rear, like an additional box or something ! I'd also want a good size up on the front, giving me a greater range between areas of ........... civilisation and storage space for winter gear.
Any info for this newbie, greatfully appreciated.
11-20-02, 01:46 PM
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Hi Mick,
I like my Arkel panniers. They're designed very intelligently, they're extremely tough. It's easy to get the bags on and off the rack, but the mounting system is rock solid. I think they're the best panniers around.
Arkel panniers are pricey, and they're water resistant rather than waterproof. They are highly resistant to rain, I should add, but in heavy rain you ought to use pannier covers and possibly plastic bags inside. Ortleib panniers, by contrast, are truly waterproof, and many people prefer them for that reason.
There are other brands people use here, and they seem to do pretty well.
Arkel:
www.panniers.com
I like my Arkel panniers. They're designed very intelligently, they're extremely tough. It's easy to get the bags on and off the rack, but the mounting system is rock solid. I think they're the best panniers around.
Arkel panniers are pricey, and they're water resistant rather than waterproof. They are highly resistant to rain, I should add, but in heavy rain you ought to use pannier covers and possibly plastic bags inside. Ortleib panniers, by contrast, are truly waterproof, and many people prefer them for that reason.
There are other brands people use here, and they seem to do pretty well.
Arkel:
www.panniers.com
11-20-02, 07:35 PM
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Yep, you cant go wrong with Arkel... I have a set of the TT-82's huge bags, very well made, top of the line zippers. All that and there great people to deal with. I have had other good panniers. But I really like the Arkels.
A friend of mine has a pair she has owned for five years or so. There a little dirty, but still good as new.
A friend of mine has a pair she has owned for five years or so. There a little dirty, but still good as new.
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"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." - Arthur Conan Doyle
11-21-02, 05:40 AM
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I would go for the Ortelieb ones - simple and waterproof enough to be taken white water rafting.
They compe in two sizes, and if you after space, then the rear ones can be fitted on the front, but you need a strong front rack and straight roads
There is also a rear box but better still is the rear kit bag.
They compe in two sizes, and if you after space, then the rear ones can be fitted on the front, but you need a strong front rack and straight roads
There is also a rear box but better still is the rear kit bag.
11-21-02, 07:52 AM
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I like Carradice ones. Easy to fit and remove, lightweight, bomp-proof construction, and highly water-resistant. I taken 2 slides on my panniers , one along 10ft of road on a hill and they are still usable.
Modern panniers should have a quick-release system on the rack, and good stiffening on the back and base.
The opening system you like depend on your use. I need frequent access to my bag, so use a flap covering. Roll-tops and zippers take too long for me.
Modern panniers should have a quick-release system on the rack, and good stiffening on the back and base.
The opening system you like depend on your use. I need frequent access to my bag, so use a flap covering. Roll-tops and zippers take too long for me.
11-21-02, 09:05 AM
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i have Ortlieb "rear-rollers" and i don't see how they could be much better -- fully waterproof, durable, easy to mount/dismount, adjustable mounting, great construction, reflective strips, etc...
i've had mine almost 4 years used for commuting almost every day and they still look like new.
i've had mine almost 4 years used for commuting almost every day and they still look like new.
11-21-02, 09:34 AM
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Ortlieb, are really great they fit securely on the bike very adjustable, and very waterproof. Why would anybody want to line there panniers with garbage bags when they make waterproof panniers. The rain covers for panniers are fine unless you are in a heavy downpour then the water collects at the bottom and gets your stuff wet. Ortlieb also can convert into a backpack when you want to get off and explore. I think it's forty bucks for that option. Have a good time on your trip
11-21-02, 11:45 AM
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Currently use Altura panniers, they're available in different weights of fabric and are mostly water resistant with rain covers rather than water proof, but are well designed and have an excellent Rixen & Kaul fixing system, so they unclip at the touch of a button whilst locking on very securely.
Richard
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11-21-02, 12:56 PM
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Another vote on the Ortlieb panniers. Waterproof and easy to get on and off. Plus I like the fact that you get extra clips for the locking mechanisim.
I use my panniers everyday on my commute. The only reason I have a ziplock back in my pannier is for those days that I bring home wet clothes.
I use my panniers everyday on my commute. The only reason I have a ziplock back in my pannier is for those days that I bring home wet clothes.
11-21-02, 11:06 PM
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Well, I'll add something in support of the Arkel panniers. Their extra pockets, their detachable walkabout pack, and their simple but unshakeable mounting hardware all shine.
The tent pole/thermarest pocket on their GT panniers is the best. There's a fuel bottle pocket on the bag on the other side. These might be my favorite bike accessories by themselves. Other extra pockets for stuff you need right away-- like extra batteries, reflective vest, whatever-- make unpacking much more efficient. It's also possible to pull this stuff out of small top pockets in the front bag while riding.
The hardware is ingeniously simple. Nothing to mount on the racks but the bags. When they're locked on they are _not_ coming off. But when you're at the campsite you make a simple twist of the lock and off they come.
The Arkel bags are extraordinarily useful in regular operation. The single black hole of the Ortleib panniers, by contrast, would drive me crazy.
I've got rain covers with a grommet to permit draining, and I've never had anything in the bags get wet yet. For an extended ride in a downpour I'd use plastic bags in the interior.
It is true that for serious waterproofing, the Orteib bags are unbeatable. If that's a top priority then Ortleib are the bags to get.
From where I sit, though, it just doesn't rain that hard all that much during times I have to be out on the road. It's not worth sacrificing the other conveniences and advantages of the Arkel bags.
But lest a gear war break out, let me say that either bag is top rate and it would be far from a mistake to get either one. Enjoy using whatever you choose.
The tent pole/thermarest pocket on their GT panniers is the best. There's a fuel bottle pocket on the bag on the other side. These might be my favorite bike accessories by themselves. Other extra pockets for stuff you need right away-- like extra batteries, reflective vest, whatever-- make unpacking much more efficient. It's also possible to pull this stuff out of small top pockets in the front bag while riding.
The hardware is ingeniously simple. Nothing to mount on the racks but the bags. When they're locked on they are _not_ coming off. But when you're at the campsite you make a simple twist of the lock and off they come.
The Arkel bags are extraordinarily useful in regular operation. The single black hole of the Ortleib panniers, by contrast, would drive me crazy.
I've got rain covers with a grommet to permit draining, and I've never had anything in the bags get wet yet. For an extended ride in a downpour I'd use plastic bags in the interior.
It is true that for serious waterproofing, the Orteib bags are unbeatable. If that's a top priority then Ortleib are the bags to get.
From where I sit, though, it just doesn't rain that hard all that much during times I have to be out on the road. It's not worth sacrificing the other conveniences and advantages of the Arkel bags.
But lest a gear war break out, let me say that either bag is top rate and it would be far from a mistake to get either one. Enjoy using whatever you choose.
11-22-02, 09:01 AM
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I just went to Arkel website. I may have to withdraw what I said earlier. That is pannier, a fuel bottle holder ,wow. They put a lot of thought into their panniers. Expensive , but nice!!
11-22-02, 05:58 PM
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We use a tandem when we tour together. We used to tow a trailer. But the Arkel TT-82's are so large that we can leave the trailer at home. That saves us 20 or so pounds that we don't have to pull up hills. We also use a seat back bag for things we use often. This is what the bags look like after a week long tour. They look stuffed, but there's still more room. The big blue bag is our Therm A Rest, Tandem LE model. Yea its big, but oh so cummfy after a good days ride.
The only draw back is theres always room for more stuff we really dont need
The only draw back is theres always room for more stuff we really dont need
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11-26-02, 08:31 AM
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I have a whole page on my website about Ortlieb panniers, and it is the most frequently accessed of all the pages...which is pretty cool since I get about 28,000 hits a year. In short, Ortlieb panniers are worthless, and I go over every single argument the Ortliebees give you.
***They are WATERPROOF. Thus..what goes in dry stays dry (more about this in a minute) but more important , what goes in wet STAYS WET. In order for your stuff to dry out you have to keep it out of the panniers, so you end up looking like a two wheeled bag lady as you go down the road.
***I might add that since they do not breathe, any DRY clothing you have in your panniers promptly picks up moisture from the wet clothing..unless you have both in their own separate set of plastic bags...which defeats the whole point of ortlieb to begin with.
***Finally, the company admits that its own standard bags are so heavy, that they even manage (wow, man!) to offer ones that are lighter than their standard model.
I have used arkel, i have used cannondale, I have used Kirtland Tourpaks (THE BEST I EVER HAD), I have used Nashbar..and have always been happy with water resistant breathable bags. By cleverly using an assortment of ziploc plastic sacks inside the panniers, you can keep your things separate and allow them to dry when the weather finally clears and warms up. Nothing make it more clear how pathetic ortlibes were than when i was in the Deserts of south america. It would be cool and damp at night, so my stuff would get a bit damp when i camped in the evening. The next day, sitting in the Ortliebs (which I took on my world tour to test them..for two years..in every climate..in every cituation)..my stuff got steamy and mildewed in bags that can't breathe because of the way they are constructed.
With the possible exception of GORE-tex, I can't imagine a camping or cycling product which is more over hyped and more over rated than Ortliebs are.
roughstuff
***They are WATERPROOF. Thus..what goes in dry stays dry (more about this in a minute) but more important , what goes in wet STAYS WET. In order for your stuff to dry out you have to keep it out of the panniers, so you end up looking like a two wheeled bag lady as you go down the road.
***I might add that since they do not breathe, any DRY clothing you have in your panniers promptly picks up moisture from the wet clothing..unless you have both in their own separate set of plastic bags...which defeats the whole point of ortlieb to begin with.
***Finally, the company admits that its own standard bags are so heavy, that they even manage (wow, man!) to offer ones that are lighter than their standard model.
I have used arkel, i have used cannondale, I have used Kirtland Tourpaks (THE BEST I EVER HAD), I have used Nashbar..and have always been happy with water resistant breathable bags. By cleverly using an assortment of ziploc plastic sacks inside the panniers, you can keep your things separate and allow them to dry when the weather finally clears and warms up. Nothing make it more clear how pathetic ortlibes were than when i was in the Deserts of south america. It would be cool and damp at night, so my stuff would get a bit damp when i camped in the evening. The next day, sitting in the Ortliebs (which I took on my world tour to test them..for two years..in every climate..in every cituation)..my stuff got steamy and mildewed in bags that can't breathe because of the way they are constructed.
With the possible exception of GORE-tex, I can't imagine a camping or cycling product which is more over hyped and more over rated than Ortliebs are.
roughstuff
11-26-02, 05:50 PM
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Yep, every thing gets put into zipp-lock bags. Clean dry stuff has its own bags, worn stinky stuff has its own bag, the stove has its own bag, so every thing won't smell of stove fuel, liquid soaps have there own bag, etc etc. It really helps to keep a small mess from becoming really messy. Oh... and TP must have its own bag, its useless when it gets wet.
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"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." - Arthur Conan Doyle
11-27-02, 10:57 AM
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hey roughstuff I didnt know that was you - yr website is excellent - I've used it loads of times
I agree with roughstuff - I've had karrimors (expensive, but so good) for about 3 yrs now, and have used them 6 days a week in all weathers (both commuting and touring - they never get a break). you can pick them up by the zips, seams, strings etc (sometimes it just isnt convenient to use the handles), and they NEVER break anywhere
the only con I've found is that they are a bit fiddly to carry, and dont have straps. other than that, they are amazing
I agree with roughstuff - I've had karrimors (expensive, but so good) for about 3 yrs now, and have used them 6 days a week in all weathers (both commuting and touring - they never get a break). you can pick them up by the zips, seams, strings etc (sometimes it just isnt convenient to use the handles), and they NEVER break anywhere
the only con I've found is that they are a bit fiddly to carry, and dont have straps. other than that, they are amazing
11-28-02, 04:48 AM
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originally posted by RoughStuff
In short, Ortlieb panniers are worthless, and I go over every single argument the Ortliebees give you.
In short, Ortlieb panniers are worthless, and I go over every single argument the Ortliebees give you.
so i guess you mean panniers for touring? (this Thread is under the touring heading, so that would make sense).
i personally tour mostly with a BOB trailer or just with a backpack for my MTB TransAlp tours (off-road is difficult with panniers), so i don't really have much experience with panniers for touring. i have only used my Ortliebs for a few small tours (sometimes in addition to my BOB - i toured with my girlfriend and carried almost all her gear too)
but for in the city daily commuting, i find the Ortleibs super, especially living places where it rains a lot - Portland Oregon and Munich! as far as things not drying out or getting wet: in daily commuting i rarely have wet stuff in my bag and having it completely dry when i get to work or wherever is VERY important.
anyway, i believe you may have some good points, but maybe should should change your statements to be that FOR TOURING you believe Ortliebs not to be ideal (maybe your website more clearly state that?). I find Ortliebs absolutely perfect for commuting.
11-28-02, 05:45 AM
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Originally posted by nathank
.....but for in the city daily commuting, i find the Ortleibs super, especially living places where it rains a lot - Portland Oregon and Munich! as far as things not drying out or getting wet: in daily commuting i rarely have wet stuff in my bag and having it completely dry when i get to work or wherever is VERY important.
anyway, i believe you may have some good points, but maybe should should change your statements to be that FOR TOURING you believe Ortliebs not to be ideal (maybe your website more clearly state that?). I find Ortliebs absolutely perfect for commuting.
.....but for in the city daily commuting, i find the Ortleibs super, especially living places where it rains a lot - Portland Oregon and Munich! as far as things not drying out or getting wet: in daily commuting i rarely have wet stuff in my bag and having it completely dry when i get to work or wherever is VERY important.
anyway, i believe you may have some good points, but maybe should should change your statements to be that FOR TOURING you believe Ortliebs not to be ideal (maybe your website more clearly state that?). I find Ortliebs absolutely perfect for commuting.
My website doesn't say 'for toruing,' but yes i think thats the context, since it is a world touring site, not a commuter bike or racing site.
roughstuff
11-28-02, 06:56 PM
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roughstuff,
How about the link to your sight?
How about the link to your sight?
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"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." - Arthur Conan Doyle
Bentbaggerlen
"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." - Arthur Conan Doyle
11-28-02, 07:42 PM
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11-29-02, 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by bentbaggerlen
roughstuff,
How about the link to your sight?
roughstuff,
How about the link to your sight?
https://www.cyclingscholar.com
as my web page for my world tour and other cycle touring information. I have a load of photos and lots of stories from both my world tour and other tours thru Europe, Canada and the USA.
enjoy it andfeel free to add some of your own stuff if ya want.
roughie
