soma5

A little history. I used to race a long time ago. I started riding last July after 12 years off the bike. After some 1500 miles, I find that I've recovered some of my speed and climbing ability. I ride with a group of relatively fast non-racers. At the beginning of a ride, I have no difficulty riding at well over 20 mph and pushing the pace higher. I'm not especially breathing hard. I can climb hills a lot better than I thought I'd be able to, but my w/kg is favorable only because i don't have very many kg (57). After about 30 miles into the ride, I seem to lose it. I'm not only not pushing the pace, I'm barely hanging on.

Here's my question. What is the best generally-accepted method of increasing my endurance? Is it intervals or more LSD? I'm just coming off nursing a sore knee, so it appears that I pushed a little too hard for the number of miles I have in my legs. Should I just get some more base miles before trying to train?

Thanks.

-soma5

ridethecliche

Do you eat while you ride?

soma5

Yes. Perhaps I should start earlier in the ride, like right away? I usually wait an hour or so.

-soma5

ericm979

I did the same, starting back up in my early 40s.

It sounds like you need more base and more long endurance paced rides. 1500 miles isn't much especially if you're middle aged or older. Remember, if you have been off the bike for years, you're building back up from zero, not from what you were before. The older you are (and the less fit you let yourself get), the longer it takes, and the more rest you need. Your previous race experience means nothing for fitness, it only gives you some self-knowledge about how hard you can train, and means that you don't need to learn how to ride.

Machka 

Lots of long steady distance. Go ride some centuries or an early season brevet or two.

Hocam

Do the opposite of what you've been doing to train.

If you've been doing lots of intervals and tempo rides, do some long steady distance and vice versa.

agilis

"Ride lots." - E. Merckx

SushiJoe

Ride teh bike. Lots!

elgalad

Yep.

You might be surprised by the results as well. I've just come off 3 months of pure endurance training, and I've gotten considerably faster. I would never have predicted that I would improve my top end speed just from endurance training, but there you go.

soma5

What constitues "pure endurance training?" Is that what we used to call LSD or is it more intense than that? Does it include long intervals?

-soma5

elgalad

About 14-16 hours a week of LSD, but with 2-3 hours of tempo thrown in for good measure

SushiJoe

I'm sorry, LSD? [I suck at acronyms.]

LowCel 

LSD - Long Steady Distances. Basicly if you want to increase your endurance you need to do more long rides.

Machka 

Yes, like a ride of 7 or 8 hours on a Saturday, and another ride of 7 or 8 hours on a Sunday. Or if that's too much for you at this point, maybe a 5-6 hour ride on a Saturday, a 4-5 hour ride on a Sunday, and a 3-4 hour ride on a Wednesday.

You've got to be able to go the distance comfortably before you can go the distance fast.

Who is your local Randonneuring club? Hook up with them to ride some permanents and brevets. Lots of triathletes ride the permanents and brevets to build up their distance because we usually hold them starting ... well, now in some places, until about the middle of June. Road racers sometimes use the really early season randonneuring events to work on their endurance too.

Here's the club in Austin: https://www.hillcountryrandonneurs.com/

Brian6751

Ride hard. Throw up. Repeat.

Seriously though, work on your nutrition/ hydration including post ride. Sounds like your bonking.

I'm not a big fan of "base training". I get better results from shorter, more intense training. Hill repeats, very fast groups etc. New research backs up my findings.

elgalad

Actually, I don't do any rides longer than about 3 hours, because that's longer than any of the races I'll be doing during the season. However, it all depends on what your goals are - whether you want to race, or are more interested in centuries, etc.

Bontrager

I'm suprised no one said it:

HTFU

Seriously... Maybe not try and go 20+ mph in the beginning on your rides.

SushiJoe

Then I need some LSD training, some short, hard interval training and everything in between!

SushiJoe

Dumb question #2 - What is Randonneuring?

bostongarden

I too have just returned to cycling (in September) after being away for about 12 years, and I raced as well. Not very scientific, but, it has been working for me: I just keep riding (almost every day now), listening to my body and making my way. For me, I'm good with just breakfast for a 30-35 mile Sunday morning ride. But, on a 50 mile ride like today (and we averaged around 18+ overall and probably 20+ for much of the second half of the ride), I also have a couple of snack bars along the way so I don't bonk/run out of juice.

I agree with Bontrager's sage advice: maybe take it down a bit early on -- unless, of course, you are going to get dropped. Even if you keep doing what you are doing, I would bet that you would hang on better each week.

I say ride, ride and ride.

You might find the Sunday morning pace of the Austin Flyers ride more to your liking at the moment; c'mon over and give it a try.

roy harley

Quote:

Originally Posted by soma5

What constitues "pure endurance training?" Is that what we used to call LSD or is it more intense than that? Does it include long intervals?

-soma5

I call it Acid

Bacciagalupe

Actually it's a combination of the two. The general principle is: one hard day a week (i.e. ride at LT, or do intervals), several days at pace, including longer rides (below LT), and 1-2 rest days.

Long steady rides will build your slow-twitch muscles, but will do nothing for fast-twitch, which are used while climbing. One day of hard work per week will build cardio and general endurance much, much faster than just LSD. A study indicated that the difference between the two methods is noticeable in just 2 weeks.

Based on what you're saying, my guess is that either you aren't eating and drinking properly, and/or you're spending a lot of time riding anaerobically. You can't tell whether that's the case subjectively, you need an HRM. If you don't notice an improvement in a few weeks, I highly recommend you pick up an HRM and see if you're riding below, near, at or above LT.

Machka 

Randonneuring is ... https://www.machka.net/rand.htm

And also:
https://www.machka.net/links.htm
https://www.rusa.org/
https://www.randonneurs.bc.ca/links/links.html
https://www.audax.org.au/index.asp
https://www.audax.uk.net/index2.htm

FrankBattle 

God I can't wait for spring ..

soma5

Good stuff. I used to train with a HRM long ago and I worked with a coach who set up weekly training schedules for me. It was so long ago that I no longer have any of the materials he gave me and my old HRM is dead and corroded. I don't think I can ride anaerobically for up to an hour and a half. I think that maybe you're right in that I go anaerobic at some point before I hit the wall at about 30 miles. I will continue to do my hill repeats once a week, maybe work a little harder on those days, and ramp down the intensity and ramp up the length of my other rides for a while as others have suggested and see how that goes.

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone.

-soma5