erbfarm

Do any of you have a bike that fits you like a glove? I would love to find one that feels like it was made for me (w/o spending tons of $$ for a custom made bike) but it seems like I'm always mickey-mousing my bikes, trying different stems lengths and heights w/o ever really feeling like I have a good fit. I think I settle for something like "not that bad" or "at least it's not super uncomfortable". Is it just me? I've got a 30" inseam, kind of a long torso, and short arms so I usually go for a 54cm top tube, 54 cm cc-to-top of seat post, and a really tall stem but even then, it's only tolerable at best but not comfortable. Any advice?

oakback

I like to think mine fits me like a glove. The owner of the LBS I use is a pro at bike fitting, I let him tell me what size to get, and he spent about 30 mins. fitting it to me.

Catgrrl70

Yes, I think mine fits me perfectly (Soma). Before I bought it I rode at least 5 other bikes. Then I found my new LBS shop (while testing bikes, an LBS I hadn't been to before). The shop helped me decide between a Soma and a Surly by measuring me. Arms, torso, legs, reach, shoulders, etc. Then I went out and test rode a Soma again. The LBS ordered the proper frame size and made sure the bars and seat were properly aligned before I even took the bike home. I rode it in the store for about 45 minutes on a trainer while they made slight adjustments. Then, after having it at home for about 2 weeks, I took it in for other slight adjustments. And that was about 6 months ago. No more adjustments, no aches and pains, nothing. It's an extension of me and me alone.

Alpha52

Read this month's Biking Magazine. There is a whole article about "Bike Studios" where you can have a bike fitting performed. Just be prepared to spend big bucks.

Longfemur

I think mine fits me like a glove, but then, it was custom-built to measure and then professionally-fitted. What that does, if it's done right, is to put saddle right in the middle of the adjustment range, and it should mean a stem that is also within a good range. There's always some leeway for all of these bike fit adjustments. There's no such thing as one single, perfect fit. It depends on what you want when you're riding that bike. Many people never find a good "fit" simply because they or someone else may be following rules of thumb that don't fit with their body or never were right to begin with. For example, many people on road bikes read something about having the saddle back (for supposed "comfort") when really, it should be a little forward so they can comfortably ride a handlebar that is an inch or two below saddle level. Too far back and you can never do that comfortably. These people usually end up with a higher stem of some kind to put the bars higher. But then, they end up with an out-of-balance bike, and too much weight on their saddle, and nothing ever feels right.

You may not need a custom bike though. I did because I have an 30 inch "inseam" while being only 5'2" tall. That makes it hard to fit on any standard, stock road bike. If you want my advice, and not too many people do... if you can setup your bike for a moderate but traditional road bike position without resorting to any extreme parts (seatpost, stem), you're doing Ok with that frame.

eofelis 

My husband has a thought or two for you:

I have an odd suggestion for you: have you tried doing a regimen of stretching every day?

You see, I can completely empathize with you: I used to fiddle with my bikes all of the time looking for that perfect fit. It seemed that what I described as the "window" of a perfect fit was about 1mm wide, in terms of the perfect seat height and, most importantly, the length. Worse, it seemed to be a moving target. Then in order to deal with a knee problem, I started doing a series of stretches on my legs and back every morning. It only takes about 10 or 15 minutes, and it's helped with my knee troubles. The strange thing is, since I've been doing this (about a year and a half now), I've noticed that I'm not a fussy about how my bikes fit. I can go from one of my bikes to another without feeling completely wrong. The window of an acceptable reach that once was about 1mm wide is now closer to 5 or 10mm wide, and, more importantly, no longer seems to be a moving target (I'm still pretty exacting about seat height, though). I worked in bike shops for nine or ten years, so I know the importance of bike fit and how close the difference can be between a good fit and a lousy fit, but this experience has made me realize that if I'm noticing that I can't quite find the perfect fit (or I have it for one ride but it feels wrong on the next ride) that the problem may be with my muscle tightness as much as it is the bike.

In addition to getting your body loosened up, I also suggest that you do what the previous posts suggest and find a really good bike shop with an employee who knows what he's doing and willing to listen to your needs. A good shop may have a size cycle to put you on, and be willing to have you try out different bikes with different fits for something more than a ride around the parking lot.

Oh, and to answer your original question: I do now have a bike with that "fit like a glove" feeling. I have an '06 Gunnar Roadie which feels like a custom built ride. I set the fit over a year ago and haven't fussed with it since (which is a record for me).

Good luck, and feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

erbfarm

Thanks for all the input so far, much appreciated. I actually have been to a really good bike shop, Harris Cyclery in West Newton MA and the guys did take some time to look at my position on my bike (or the bike I had at the time). The bike that fits me the best is my Univega gran turismo. It has a 54 cm top tube, and a Technomic stem (up as high as it can go) w/ a 90 mm stem extension. The bars ends up about 2" above my saddle height. And it took a lot of monkeying around to come up with that. I was just wondering if it's ever the case where you just get on a bike and go "ahhhhh, this feels so right" or if it's always a case of dragging out the old parts bin and throwing on this stem or that stem. going for a ride, coming back, trying something else, over and over until you either settle for "not as bad" or just avoid the bike!!

gear

If you have a custom made frame, you don't just get a perfect fit (although thats' reason enough for a custom frame) you also get the frame made to perform the way you want it to. I have two custom made Seven Ti frames and the bikes have the exact ride characteristics I'm looking for.

Garfield Cat

Harris Cyclery? Isn't that the Sheldon Brown bike shop?

Flying Merkel

I had a Specialized Rock Hopper that fit perfectly. Thank the knowledgeable sales guy at Supergo Fountain Valley back in '96. Rode that bike to death. The bike's death, not mine.

I bought a $25.00 Schwinn Mirada last month with the intent of flipping it. After spooning on a set of tires & doing basic tighten & lube, I took it for a test-ride. It's a overweight lower-end MTB of the early 80s, but it's a keeper. Perfect fit for 6'0 47 year old not-so-flexible me.

If I was in the market for a high end or custom bike, I'd spend the $$$ for a fitting session. A bike that fits is a joy. A bike that doesn't will gather dust & excuses.

Longfemur

Do yourself a favour and forget about this idea of having the handlebars higher than the saddle, unless all you want to do is ride a few blocks. If you do want to ride like that, get yourself a nice hybrid.

alanbikehouston

Sadly, the only way to find the perfect fit is trial and error. It took me ten years of fiddling with seat posts and stems, and experimenting to figure out why some of my bikes felt perfect and others felt uncomfortable. When I figured out what worked, I set up each of my bikes to match that perfect fit.

The ESSENTIAL measurement for precise bike fit is cockpit length, but the only way a cyclist discovers the perfect cockpit length is by trial and error. Once you know the perfect cockpit length, that is the KEY number in buying a bike, and setting up a bike for perfect fit.

For me, the setup that works best is a saddle height of 30 inches, a bar drop of one inch, and a cockpit length of 31 1/2 inches (measured from the back edge of the saddle to the front edge of the stem).

So, each of my bikes is setup the same 30 x 1 x 31 1/2....and all fit me perfectly. If I buy a new bike, I just see how easily that new bike can be set up at 30 x 1 x 31 1/2. If the bike can not match those numbers using a standard stem, the bike is the wrong size for me.

The advertised size of a bike is meaningless. The only issue is whether the bike provides the correct saddle height, the correct cockpit length, and the correct bar drop. Among the dozen or so bikes I currently have, a couple are as small as size 56, and a couple as large as size 62. Each one of them provides the precise same fit, although the size 56 bikes required a taller stem to obtain it.

erbfarm

Hey it's not that I want to "ride like that" but as a 5'7" female w/ long legs and short arms (like a lot of tallish women) things just work out that way. I thought my set up was totally dorky until I went on a bike tour and noticed that a lot of the Terry bike owners had these super tall stems about 2" above their saddles like me and when I met those bike owners and noticed that at 5'8" or 5'9" their legs were quite long in proportion to their arms, I thought "there seems to be a pattern here". I *really* don't want a hybrid.

chuwa

I agree with alanbikehoustan, saddle height, a bar drop and the cockpit length are the key configuration.

I use a folding bike with a long adjustable seat post. Then I can also adjust the height and position of the handle bar. This give me a great range of flexibility to try out different configurations. I just use a different configuration everyday for a week. It take time and distance to really get a good feel of a certain configuration. After settling on a comfortable saddle height/bar drop/cockpit length, I adjust my road bike to similar and it does feel good.

On the other hands eofiles do have a very good point. training the body to adapt to different condition is certainly more rewarding than fine tuning the last mm. Perhaps that's why some people enjoy cycling so much while other hate it so much?

staehpj1

+1 High bars equal more weight on your butt and an awkward position for your lower back. In addition they are aerodynamically worse.

Unless you want to ride very slowly and only shorter distances, it is a bad idea.

Personally I like my bars 3-4" below the saddle even on my touring bike. I rode it coast to coast and am convinced that I was far more comfortable than I would have been with the bars higher.

I recently bought a new road bike and the bars were 5" below the saddle. I was worried that it might be a bit much for longer rides. I changed my mind after feeling the best I have ever felt after a century in a recent ride.

Lower bars might require that you work on your flexibility and or core strength, but it is worth it.

Longfemur

Hi Erbfarm

Just trying to help you avoid an expensive mistake. I know your situation very well, because, while I'm a male, I'm short but with unusually long legs for my height (including proportionally longer thighs). There's nothing in bike fitting I haven't experimented with many times over during my 35-plus years of riding a road bike.

Unfortunately, there is so much misinformation and misconception which is being exacerbated by the internet - and also by the road bike racing industry itself (which promotes a kind of extreme bike fit which focuses on power production only). Then at the other end of the spectrum, you have the well-intentioned, generally nice but wrong-headed folks who think riding a road bike (including a touring bike) should be like riding a beach cruiser.

What you should be looking for, in my opinion, is a road bike which will allow you to set your saddle properly while not being too small to allow you to have your handlebars an inch down from that saddle (with some room to spare to have the handlebars a little higher, say about half an inch lower than the saddle). Today's formula-based saddle height guidelines are way too high for comfortable, long-distance riding, even when it comes to actual stage type racing. You don't want to sprint or win races over short distances, but rather, you want a good compromise between power, efficiency, comfort and aerodynamics. The road bike as beach cruiser mindset doesn't provide for any of that, as you will quickly find out the first time you have to ride any significant distance on a windy day.

If a person, whether man or woman, needs to have the handlebars higher than the saddle in order to ride comfortably, it's because that frame is way out of proper proportion. The old rules of thumb were tried and true. I would suggest you set your saddle to be able to pedal backwards with your heels on the pedals (with your cycling shoes on and assuming the ball of the foot is over the pedal spindle). Once you have that, raise the saddle another half to one centimeter and see how that feels in actual riding. Then, set the saddle setback by the traditional method of knee over pedal at 3 o'clock. The most foolproof way is to just drop the plumb line from the front of the knee. When done this way, the plumb line should fall right at the end of the crankarm. Alternatively, you can use the first dimple you feel on the inside of your knee as you move your finger right from the front of the kneecap. In this case, you want the plumb line to fall to the middle of the pedal spindle.

Ok, so now you have your saddle set properly for good, efficient and comfortable long-distance riding. It won't be the most powerful pedal stroke, but it will be efficient enough, and comfortable. At this point, move on to setting the handlebars. For this, you want the right horizontal length of stem that allows proper positioning of your torso while having the handlebars an inch below the top of the saddle. The right setup here will allow you to ride on the tops or corners/ramps of the bars very comfortably. This will be your primary position for most riding when you're just cruising and you don't need to have your fingers on the brakes (a setup for generally riding on the hoods almost guarantees unusable drops). On the tops or corners, your back angle for touring type riding (and what used to be optimal for stage racing too before the crazy generation took over) will be roughly about 50 degrees when your elbows are slightly bent. When on the hoods, it should then be about 45 degrees or a little lower.

As a rough estimate (not a rule) for a good stem length, you can use the tip of elbow with arm outstrecthed to the handlebar rule of thumb. This should be pretty close, but you may end up needing a bit longer stem. Once you have the stem and handlebar mounted on the bike, get on it in your normal seated position on the saddle, and then get into the hands at the front of the drops position. What you want is that in your position this way, with your head up the way you normally ride to see where you're going (in other words, not looking down), a plumb line dropped from the top of your nose should fall approximately an inch behind the tops of the handlebar.

Once you have this all setup up, check yourself by setting up a mirror so you can see yourself sideways while on the bike. Look at those back angles, and check that with your elbows slightly bent, your arms are at approx. a 90 deg angle to your torso. Close enough is good enough.

Then ride the bike and get used to it. If you still feel you need to have your handlebars higher, then try riding with them about 1/2 an inch below the saddle. The reason you don't want them higher than this is not so much air resistance, but proper back angle which brings your big glute muscles into play when pedaling. Using all of your muscles for this is the key. This won't happen at all if you are sitting too upright.

Look, you obviously don't have to believe me, but you should try this. Once you get used to it, you will be a beautifully smooth pedaler who can ride long distances without any real discomfort. This classic road bike position was tried and true before the craziness began. But you know what, very few people complained about saddles back then. If you're not fit enough for it right way, use that as motivation to get fit or to drop weight if necessary.

Good luck. If you do get a bike that allows you to do this with the saddle close to being at the middle of its rails, and with the saddle tip about 6 inches above a level top tube, and you can use a stem of about 80-100 cm with the handlebars an inch below the saddle, you should be sitting pretty on a properly-proportioned frame. If you still insisted later on that you want your handlebars higher than the saddle, then you would be able to do it with a stem that is high enough (if your bike has a threadless headset system, make sure you leave it uncut until you're sure what position you want).

One final word: As you get fitter, more flexible, more motivated for performance... or whatever, you may find that you benefit from a saddle a bit higher and more forward than what I described. This is the benefit of having a frame that allows you some adjustment room. As you put the saddle higher and a bit more forward, you will have a less sharp angle between your stomach and your thighs, and you may well find that you can use handlebars that are lower than you had them before. So, get it in the ballpark, and then ride with your Allen keys so you can find what works best for you. Everyone is different, and ONLY YOU can feel what you feel.

erbfarm

thanks for all the info Longfemur. I think part of what has been so perplexing to me is that I know the difficulty in right fit isn't really the result of any inflexibility or out-of-shape ness on my part. At 5'7" and 120 pounds I'm really quite lean and I do a lot of yoga so I'm also quite flexible. I can bend into all kinds of shapes!!! I think part of the issue has been the variation in top tube lengths on my bikes. I've got two bikes w/ 54 cm top tubes, one w/ a 52 cm top tube, and one w/ a 56 cm top tube. Right now, the 56 cm gives me sore shoulders every time I ride it which I assume is from having my arms so stretched forward just to reach the bars all the time. and the 52 cm makes me feel all scrunched up. But it also could be from the different bars on the bikes (one has straight bars and the other moustache bars). I'm going to take your advice and at least shoot for bars that are even w/ the saddle for starters b/c that would be an improvement. I don't do any type of racing, I'm mainly interested in touring.

Longfemur

I think that top of drop bars even with saddle is a very good setup for touring type of riding. It's a reasonable compromise, although I have to say that I think the vast majority of seasoned, serious touring cyclists gravitate towards handlebars a little lower than saddle. Once you go higher than that, you're not really gaining anything except a lot more problematic weight on your posterior and an improperly balanced road bike). Level with saddle means you've got comfortable reach to the tops (about the same as you would with flat bars), a bit more stretch to the brake levers (which is useful both for muscle relief while riding and for more power or less wind resistance when needed, or for climbing standing), and your drops aren't as low. A touring rider needs the drops not for extreme power situations but for muscle relief, coasting downhill, and driving into a headwind whenever necessary.

You have to experiment a bit, but a person with a short torso and longer legs might feel that saddle a bit more forward is more comfortable, because the bend at the waist is lessened. That's how I ride mine, and I'm no racer. I can breathe a lot better that way. I just like to go far both comfortably and for the least amount of effort as I'm riding. Formulas and rules of thumb are useful for initial setup, but there's no substitute for trying, riding, and seeing how it feels.

JeanCoutu

This is the fitting method I ended up using to find what's best for me, then I measured the works so as to be able to dial in future bikes easy, and it's great. But one ride is much too short, takes about a week of daily riding or so between changes to get used to them & appreciate their effect.

PaulRivers

It's just an fyi, but though I haven't seen many handlebars above the seat, you can find bikes that allow you to have the handlebars even with the seat:
https://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkM...&sid=08Sequoia
It

PaulRivers

P.S. I have had that "ahhhhh, this feels so right feeling".

I had them put the bike on hold (with those exact measurements) while I tried out other bikes. Other bikes shops fit me slightly differently, and it didn't fit quite right. Unfortunately, after a couple of these I realized that the new fitting gave me more power, while the old fitting just matched the way I had been riding my bike for years. I could ride forever like that, but it didn't give me much power for hills or sprinting (pretty much all my "sprinting" is from intersections and stoplights, but it's still fun).

The bike I bought has the more powerful, but less "fits like a glove fit". Hmm.