Biking Through Bad Neighborhoods...?
#1
Biking Through Bad Neighborhoods...?
Hey there guys. My school is around three miles away from my house, making it a breeze of a bike ride, but only being 15, my mom has some concerns. Mainly because in order to get to my school, you have to ride right through one of the corners of the Iron Triangle in Oakland, CA.
For those of you who don't know what the Iron Triangle is, it is as follows:
But it is also full of some of the largest amounts gang violence in Richmond and Oakland, CA, specifically near the AA housing and apartments which I pass when I ride to school.
So, I am wondering what your thoughts are on riding through bad neighborhoods. How do I convince my mom that I can ride through these neighborhoods with ease (she's mainly worried that I'd ride right into a gang fight [she's kind of neurotic like that]). I mean, the ride should take me about 20 minutes, really.
Thanks for your guys' input, and I don't know how many of you are figurative wisenheimers, but I can already see somebody replying, "Ride faster."
For those of you who don't know what the Iron Triangle is, it is as follows:
The neighborhood gets its name from three major railroad tracks which form a rough triangle and define its boundaries. The northeastern side of the Iron Triangle is the Union Pacific Railroad/BART tracks that run beside Carlson Boulevard, Espee Avenue, Portola Avenue, and 13th Street. The Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway tracks that parallel the Richmond Parkway form the northwest side of the triangle. Traditionally, the southern side of the triangle has been the now abandoned Santa Fe tracks that ran between Ohio and Chanslor Avenues and are currently being developed as the Richmond Greenway. Because those tracks have been removed, the southern boundary of the neighborhood is now sometimes considered to be the BNSF tracks that run just south of Interstate 580.
So, I am wondering what your thoughts are on riding through bad neighborhoods. How do I convince my mom that I can ride through these neighborhoods with ease (she's mainly worried that I'd ride right into a gang fight [she's kind of neurotic like that]). I mean, the ride should take me about 20 minutes, really.
Thanks for your guys' input, and I don't know how many of you are figurative wisenheimers, but I can already see somebody replying, "Ride faster."
#3
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kentwood michigan.
Posts: 486
Bikes: too many
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I'm certain you're overestimating the distance on that. Longest side on the triangle is 3 miles at the absolute max.
Stick on main roads and dont dress like a hood.
I grew up in San Francisco's TL, and would hang out with friends in the triangle to take a break.
Ken.
Stick on main roads and dont dress like a hood.
I grew up in San Francisco's TL, and would hang out with friends in the triangle to take a break.
Ken.
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Southeast
Posts: 756
Bikes: cyclotank
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Hmmmm, lessee...
Given you are 15, I should be about your Mom's age. Aside from her emotional investment in you she has good reason to be nervous, not neurotic. Let's review the evidence, shall we?
I skirt pretty gritty neighbourhood myself, on the other side of the country. I saw a .22 shell on a sidewalk. I have been shooed off by a police officer to a sidestreet to take a detour during a day-long stand-off. Due to broken glass bottles and other k-rap if I have two weeks between flats - I am doing superb. Freeway underpasses are a separate story - hold your breath...
I ride just ahead of rush hour on main streets, to ensure plenty of eyes but not much traffic yet, and vary my riding days. You will be a regular target, like a clockwork, twice a day, every day, and this is my main problem.
Take a longer route. It is not quite clear if it is 20mi RT or one way. 10 mi one way is good exercise and will take about 35-40 min, comparable to most school bus rides, 20 mi one way is nearly unsustainable.
AND WEAR A HELMET!!!!!
Ride Safe and Have fun
SF
Given you are 15, I should be about your Mom's age. Aside from her emotional investment in you she has good reason to be nervous, not neurotic. Let's review the evidence, shall we?
I skirt pretty gritty neighbourhood myself, on the other side of the country. I saw a .22 shell on a sidewalk. I have been shooed off by a police officer to a sidestreet to take a detour during a day-long stand-off. Due to broken glass bottles and other k-rap if I have two weeks between flats - I am doing superb. Freeway underpasses are a separate story - hold your breath...
I ride just ahead of rush hour on main streets, to ensure plenty of eyes but not much traffic yet, and vary my riding days. You will be a regular target, like a clockwork, twice a day, every day, and this is my main problem.
Take a longer route. It is not quite clear if it is 20mi RT or one way. 10 mi one way is good exercise and will take about 35-40 min, comparable to most school bus rides, 20 mi one way is nearly unsustainable.
AND WEAR A HELMET!!!!!
Ride Safe and Have fun
SF
#6
The real danger isn't your riding into a gang fight, but someone mugging you for the bike. It's not an unrealistic fear, especially if the bike is obvious thief-bait. A lot would depend here on the exact route - how busy it is and how visible you would be, etc.
Last edited by meanwhile; 10-03-09 at 02:35 PM.
#7
Infamous Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 24,360
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
4 Posts
1. Dress in a manner where you will not draw undue attention to yourself...no spandex, no wild jerseys, no fancy helmets, no fancy shoes, no fancy bike.
2. Always act like you know what you are doing and like you belong there.
3. Pay attention to your environment...avoid trouble when spotted or even if you just feel hinky.
4. Mind your own business
As long as you don't look like a potential victim or a potential threat or a potential dickhead, you'll be fine - in any neighborhood.
2. Always act like you know what you are doing and like you belong there.
3. Pay attention to your environment...avoid trouble when spotted or even if you just feel hinky.
4. Mind your own business
As long as you don't look like a potential victim or a potential threat or a potential dickhead, you'll be fine - in any neighborhood.
#8
Hmmmm, lessee...
Given you are 15, I should be about your Mom's age. Aside from her emotional investment in you she has good reason to be nervous, not neurotic. Let's review the evidence, shall we?
I skirt pretty gritty neighbourhood myself, on the other side of the country. I saw a .22 shell on a sidewalk. I have been shooed off by a police officer to a sidestreet to take a detour during a day-long stand-off. Due to broken glass bottles and other k-rap if I have two weeks between flats - I am doing superb. Freeway underpasses are a separate story - hold your breath...
I ride just ahead of rush hour on main streets, to ensure plenty of eyes but not much traffic yet, and vary my riding days. You will be a regular target, like a clockwork, twice a day, every day, and this is my main problem.
Take a longer route. It is not quite clear if it is 20mi RT or one way. 10 mi one way is good exercise and will take about 35-40 min, comparable to most school bus rides, 20 mi one way is nearly unsustainable.
AND WEAR A HELMET!!!!!
Ride Safe and Have fun
SF
Given you are 15, I should be about your Mom's age. Aside from her emotional investment in you she has good reason to be nervous, not neurotic. Let's review the evidence, shall we?
I skirt pretty gritty neighbourhood myself, on the other side of the country. I saw a .22 shell on a sidewalk. I have been shooed off by a police officer to a sidestreet to take a detour during a day-long stand-off. Due to broken glass bottles and other k-rap if I have two weeks between flats - I am doing superb. Freeway underpasses are a separate story - hold your breath...
I ride just ahead of rush hour on main streets, to ensure plenty of eyes but not much traffic yet, and vary my riding days. You will be a regular target, like a clockwork, twice a day, every day, and this is my main problem.
Take a longer route. It is not quite clear if it is 20mi RT or one way. 10 mi one way is good exercise and will take about 35-40 min, comparable to most school bus rides, 20 mi one way is nearly unsustainable.
AND WEAR A HELMET!!!!!
Ride Safe and Have fun
SF
1. Dress in a manner where you will not draw undue attention to yourself...no spandex, no wild jerseys, no fancy helmets, no fancy shoes, no fancy bike.
2. Always act like you know what you are doing and like you belong there.
3. Pay attention to your environment...avoid trouble when spotted or even if you just feel hinky.
4. Mind your own business
As long as you don't look like a potential victim or a potential threat or a potential dickhead, you'll be fine - in any neighborhood.
2. Always act like you know what you are doing and like you belong there.
3. Pay attention to your environment...avoid trouble when spotted or even if you just feel hinky.
4. Mind your own business
As long as you don't look like a potential victim or a potential threat or a potential dickhead, you'll be fine - in any neighborhood.
So what I'm seeing really is just don't act or dress like a target and mind my own business. Seems simple enough.
#9
Subjectively Insane
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri
Posts: 801
Bikes: '09 Rodriguez Adventurer Custom, '08 Trek 7.3Fx
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I was your age riding through a not so sketchy neighborhood, that I'd gone through many times. I got hit with a 2x4 in the back/neck and mugged for my bike.
It was a really crappy bike, but the group of 4-5 ghetto kids wanted it. I was 6' even at the time, 240lbs and fairly fit. I thought no-one would mess with me. A chunk of wood and being outnumbered was more then enough, learned a lot about the world that day.
A few years later I was riding through a really bad neighborhood, much like the one you'll be going near, a kid not much older then 16 pulled a gun on me for my bike, luckily I was going pretty quickly and he decided not to shoot me. Again, it was a cheap bike, in poor shape, but those that don't have one, and that grew up amongst violence will readily take yours.
People are shot for $20 bucks, looking at someone wrong, or being in the wrong neighborhood. It happens quite a lot, if you feel like that wouldn't happen to you, you need to re-evaluate reality. Tough lesson to learn the hard way.
If you get a flat near there, good luck. Your mom is being reasonable. If you can't detour around that area, I'd not do it.
It was a really crappy bike, but the group of 4-5 ghetto kids wanted it. I was 6' even at the time, 240lbs and fairly fit. I thought no-one would mess with me. A chunk of wood and being outnumbered was more then enough, learned a lot about the world that day.
A few years later I was riding through a really bad neighborhood, much like the one you'll be going near, a kid not much older then 16 pulled a gun on me for my bike, luckily I was going pretty quickly and he decided not to shoot me. Again, it was a cheap bike, in poor shape, but those that don't have one, and that grew up amongst violence will readily take yours.
People are shot for $20 bucks, looking at someone wrong, or being in the wrong neighborhood. It happens quite a lot, if you feel like that wouldn't happen to you, you need to re-evaluate reality. Tough lesson to learn the hard way.
If you get a flat near there, good luck. Your mom is being reasonable. If you can't detour around that area, I'd not do it.
Last edited by MilitantPotato; 10-03-09 at 04:05 PM.
#10
I was your age riding through a not so sketchy neighborhood, that I'd gone through many times. I got hit with a 2x4 in the back/neck and mugged for my bike.
It was a really crappy bike, but the group of 4-5 ghetto kids wanted it. I was 6' even at the time, 240lbs and fairly fit, I thought no-one would mess with me, but a chunk of wood and being outnumbered was more then enough, learned a lot about the world that day.
A few years later I was riding through a really bad neighborhood, much like the one you'll be going near, a kid not much older then 16 pulled a gun on me for my bike, luckily I was going pretty quickly and he decided not to shoot me. Again, it was a cheap bike, in poor shape, but those that don't have one, and that grew up amongst violence will readily take yours.
If you get a flat near there, good luck. Your mom is being reasonable. If you can't detour around that area, I'd not do it.
It was a really crappy bike, but the group of 4-5 ghetto kids wanted it. I was 6' even at the time, 240lbs and fairly fit, I thought no-one would mess with me, but a chunk of wood and being outnumbered was more then enough, learned a lot about the world that day.
A few years later I was riding through a really bad neighborhood, much like the one you'll be going near, a kid not much older then 16 pulled a gun on me for my bike, luckily I was going pretty quickly and he decided not to shoot me. Again, it was a cheap bike, in poor shape, but those that don't have one, and that grew up amongst violence will readily take yours.
If you get a flat near there, good luck. Your mom is being reasonable. If you can't detour around that area, I'd not do it.
Bad neighborhoods are...well, bad. I've thought about carrying pepper spray, but it seems like too much. Yet, maybe it's just enough. See, I have no idea.
#11
Subjectively Insane
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri
Posts: 801
Bikes: '09 Rodriguez Adventurer Custom, '08 Trek 7.3Fx
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Minding your own business just keeps you from making enemies, it does not in any way guarantee shady types will leave you a lone, nor will it keep you safe (unmugged or alive.)
#12
Subjectively Insane
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri
Posts: 801
Bikes: '09 Rodriguez Adventurer Custom, '08 Trek 7.3Fx
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I can perfectly understand my mom's concerns, she's just the main factor in this. I know that what she says is ultimately the biggest factor, and I really do know where's she's coming from.
Bad neighborhoods are...well, bad. I've thought about carrying pepper spray, but it seems like too much. Yet, maybe it's just enough. See, I have no idea.
Bad neighborhoods are...well, bad. I've thought about carrying pepper spray, but it seems like too much. Yet, maybe it's just enough. See, I have no idea.
Othertimes someone just needs to get high, or that is already high and feeling a little fiesty, pepperspray does nothing to someone going through withdrawl or higher then a kite and you're standing between them and a bike good enough to buy a hit.
Bet bet is to go well around bad areas, or carry a firearm.
#13
Infamous Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 24,360
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
4 Posts
Even in the worst neighborhoods there are people who never experience a mugging or violence during the period they live/work there. I'm sorry the odds got you, but that doesn't mean everyone is gonna get the short end of the stick.
But it does bring to mind something I omitted to share with the OP: Don't follow the same routine.
You can't stop something from happening to you totally at random, but you can make it harder for someone to plan to jack you. Mix things up a little, don't always be at the same place at the same time or use the same exact route or stop at the same exact places, etc.
Of course the other point that I think you and others are trying to make are quite valid...best way to keep out of trouble is to avoid it...so if you know someplace is sketchy, avoidance is a good thing, if possible.
#14
Subjectively Insane
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri
Posts: 801
Bikes: '09 Rodriguez Adventurer Custom, '08 Trek 7.3Fx
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I can understand your cynical outlook after becoming a victim yourself...but for every person that is a victim of a mugging, literally thousands go on about their day without incident. In other words, while the odds make it more likely than a lightning strike, it doesn't make it a certainty or even a 50/50 proposition.
Even in the worst neighborhoods there are people who never experience a mugging or violence during the period they live/work there. I'm sorry the odds got you, but that doesn't mean everyone is gonna get the short end of the stick.
Even in the worst neighborhoods there are people who never experience a mugging or violence during the period they live/work there. I'm sorry the odds got you, but that doesn't mean everyone is gonna get the short end of the stick.
I'm not saying it's guaranteed, but given a longer commute vs risking being attacked by choosing the easier route...
A healthy fear of putting ones self in danger is a good thing. There's a reason people are afraid to live in bad neighborhoods, and those well enough off, move ASAP. It's not because they KNOW they're going to be attacked, but that it's more likely than in a "good" neighborhood.
Some people enjoy risks, like sky diving, racing, etc. I can understand that, since it's fun and you only live once. I can't see what's fun about riding through a bad neighborhood that can be avoided, though.
Just my 15 cents.
#16
Spinning @ 33 RPM
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 747
Bikes: '89 Fuji Saratoga, '97 Schwinn Mesa SS, '07 Felt F1X, '10 Transition TransAM, '11 Soma Analog SS
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
First off, thanks for writing a post that can actually be read and understood. Second, do you have any friends that could ride with you? I would imagine your chances would be better and your mom happier if you were not alone.
#17
I do have some fixed gear riding friends, and I can try to talk them into it. Otherwise I can consult the other cycling club members at our school and see what's up.
#19
Infamous Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 24,360
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
4 Posts
Not calling you a dork of course, just using the perception of the other dorks who might notice you.
#21
Having to ride through a boozed up city centre with few police around on Friday and Saturday nights after a late shift, I find switching down a few gears and riding "light" is always good. A lower gear makes being able to sprint off suddenly easier. By riding "light" I mean focused and ready to get out of the saddle and power off and being able to use your body to maneuver away from danger.
A strong helmet mounted head light, (enough to dazzle someone), although it might attract attention to you can give you those extra seconds to make your escape.
Nothing however beats planning your routes and making friends with the local bar bouncers!
A strong helmet mounted head light, (enough to dazzle someone), although it might attract attention to you can give you those extra seconds to make your escape.
Nothing however beats planning your routes and making friends with the local bar bouncers!
Last edited by Jonahhobbes; 10-03-09 at 05:35 PM.
#22
Spinning @ 33 RPM
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 747
Bikes: '89 Fuji Saratoga, '97 Schwinn Mesa SS, '07 Felt F1X, '10 Transition TransAM, '11 Soma Analog SS
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
This is true. I feel like they would be less likely to mess with multiple people though. However, I'm just a suburban/rural boy. I've never had to deal with any of this. Oh yeah, just ride faster.
#24
Pedal pusher...
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,766
Bikes: I've got a bunch...
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I live in a "bad" neighborhood, but I guess I don't really get what "bad' is exactly. So far this year, there have been 5 homicides in the closest "good" area and 1 in my little barrio. Chipcom's advice is good, and I've never met anyone who was mugged when they weren't riding alone. Even one other person with you is a huge deterrent.
__________________
May you live long, live strong, and live happy!
May you live long, live strong, and live happy!