thatsut

Dear folding friends,

This is going to be a long one sorry. But writing helps me think aswell as giving you a full picture of the help I need.

Ok I have an important question people of a folding persuasion can understand. I would really apprciate your help and patience as I am self-admittedly over-think a subject.

outlined below are what i like to ride and my budget.

What I like to ride…..

When it comes to bikes I believe there has to be some sort of compromise, especially with a folding bike. Therefore I have outlined firstly the important question firstly what type of riding do I want.

Recently I went mountain biking with some friends and I loved it. Additionally I love touring which I have only had one big ride (Bejing to Llhasa) so there are many things I still have to learn about it as I mainly encountered decent roads and would find alternative travel if surfaces was bad.

My price range…

Around £500 (can go more but ideally not ), so this counts out the airnimal rhino/dahon xp and im abit worried amount small wheels for the thing I’ve been doing relatively comfortably and safely on my friends rockhopper.. not to mention fast.

So Should I sell my BELOVED Brrompton for a Montague Paratrooper? Should I quit complaining and just get off and walk where it gets to rugged? (as i plan to leave to go touring indefinatly in one year i can only have one bike )

I would go to the mountain bike or touring forum but from experience we ‘the folders’ are really the nicest people in this whole place, if not the planet.

Thanks,

Nathan, Wales

ps. pictures to help

https://www.montaguebikes.com/folding...olding-system/

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ight=brrompton

Geekybiker

I think what we are missing here is exactly why you need this to be a folding bike. That has alot to do with recommendations.

thatsut

Thanks geekybiker for reading and the advice, it definatley has to fold from exerience;

one... getting the bike to the place i'm going i.e plane,train etc
two... easier to take in a hostel rooms (every tourer sleeps with there bike ), however i prefer and mostly camp but not always
three.. sometimes when travelling within a country having a bike that can fold enough to fit in the back of a car is very, when some local wants to show you a place of intrest useful but i prefer to keep two wheels on the ground
four...folding bikes are the future

Geekybiker

So it sounds like the folding issue is more one of storage, than getting on and off trains constantly. Speed and compactness of fold aren't of high importance. I'd be looking at a 26" folder like the x50 you linked to. If I were traveling in remote areas, I'd be looking more at MTB frames than road frames. Also I would take a long hard look at what proprietary parts the bike has. You don't want to be in the middle of tibet and be looking for a 74mm hub most likely.

thatsut

thanks

i asked my mate if i should but the mountain bike he said "buy it your deeead a long time" it was after his six/seventh guniuess and he is scotish so it sounded more like"bbby ee ....uuuurrr ded a llung tyyyme"

Dynocoaster 

https://www.evanscycles.com/products/...-bike-ec000325

JeremyZ

I think Dynocoaster is on the money here. Is that a small enough fold to meet your needs?

Don't go smaller than 20" wheels, in any case.

thatsut

I really think suspension is needed.

and realise when folding a full wheel bike its the 26" wheels that are the larges things so the below link is VERY smart

https://images.google.co.uk/imgres?im...26tbs%3Disch:1

additionally any reaseon why you say dont go any smaller than 20"?

thatsut

I really think suspension is needed.

and realise when folding a full wheel bike its the 26" wheels that are the larges things so the below link is VERY smart

https://images.google.co.uk/imgres?im...26tbs%3Disch:1

additionally any reaseon why you say dont go any smaller than 20"?

Dynocoaster 

You can get a seat post with a suspension.

snafu21

The art of finding One True Bike To Do It All is a tricky one. We all need three bikes, a 20" folder for convenience, a 26" dirt monster for the weekends, and a 700c roadie for burning off lycra louts. With one bike, everything becomes a compromise. 20" wheels are nimble but suffer in loose gravel and dirt, anything smaller (like your Brompton) increases portabilty - and compromise. 7 gears are great for tarmac, but more dirt or more hills or more luggage needs more gears.

The 26" folders from Dahon are pretty good all rounders, the rebar 2007 bikes - Jacks, Espressos and the Matrix all good. The later 26" bikes like the Matrix and Cadenza evoke some grumbles about the lockjaw hinges needing an allen key to operate and occasional moans about 'creaks.' Then, every folding bike evokes moans about creaks.

First choice is whether you need front suspension or not. If no, the cult all-rounders from Dahon's are the Dahon Jack now in D7 (7 gears) and D24 for 2010, they're great 26" folders and good for weekend pootling on old towpaths and so forth.

I've just come back (literally) from bouncing around on a forest trail on my ex's Downtube, IX FS a 20" wheel scoot with full suspension and a gel saddle, and I was pleased to get off it . If you do more dirt than pavement, or loose surfaces, the equation leans more to 26", with a set of street tyres, and a set of knobblies for the weekend, and front suspension for more serious stuff..

The Monty para has 24 cogs, front suspension, and it folds. If you go with your pals at the weekend, and they're running dirt bikes, you'll want a dirt bike.

Hmmm....



If you do go for a Dahon check out Winstanleys, they have 2007/08/09 bikes at nearly a third off - check they have your frame size though:

https://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/pr...ding_Bike_2007

When you decide to sell your Brommie you'll find people will tear your arm off for it on Ebay, or indeed, on here.

Dynocoaster 

This one would come real close
https://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/pr...ding_Bike_2009

JeremyZ

Rougher ride and no real fold size benefit compared to 20". Adding suspension adds weight to already heavy bikes, and robs power, to already inefficient bikes.

vik 

If you have a Brompton keep it for commuting and errand rides - even light B&B/hostel tours.

Buy an older Mtn bike in good shape with front suspension you can ride offroad and can tour with. If you can find a decent steel 80's frame you'll be able to add S&S couplers down the road so you can break the bike in half for storage and transport.

I've never seen any bike at at £500 that's going to:

- fold
- be fun to mtn bike on
- be fun to tour on



If money were no object I'd recommend a Thorn Nomad S&S with a rigid fork and a suspension fork - mine shown above. By swapping the fork you go from offroad biking to touring/paved road biking.

brommie

I bought a bike with bigger wheels for a faster ride. It is the Airnimal Joey. I still have my Brompton, but it's now only a bike to do shopping with. The ride of the Airnimal Joey was that much more enjoyable that I only use my Brompton if I really have to.
So I'm curious if you have the same experience after you have bought a new bike.

I did try to do mountain biking on a Brompton. My advise "forget it". It's simply not the right bike for it.
Just as racing, the Brompton is simply not the right bike for it. But for city touring, short trips, maybe even longer trips, the Brompton is made for.
And of course folding, that's what the Brompton surely is made for.
But for mountain biking the best is to go for a bike made for it. Although very expensive the Airnimal MTB is a good bike. I did ride it once and I really like it. But for now I stay with the Airnimal Joey, not for mountian biking of course.

So there is a bike for every purpose.
Of course everyone may differ in opinion. That's what make this world so special.

BTW that Thorn Nomad S & S looks great! But I don't have the guts to ask for the price . . .

thatsut

Dynocoaster I think the only dahon warrentied for off road is the flo, Which make me too worried about the other items sorry.

snafu21 I really wish I could have more than one bike but just can’t take more than one bike on a tour.

“and I was pleased to get off it” did that mean you was didn’t like the ride?

The type of riding I have done and would like to do means front suspension makes things much more comfortable and enjoyable.

However guys thanks for the winstanleys link

"When you decide to sell your Brommie you'll find people will tear your arm off for it on Ebay, or indeed, on here" Yeap i have wondered how much i would get for my Brrompton but then i think of all the time and money i spent on it

vik thanks for the bike link looks very nice, if money where no object I’d go for a s&a litespeed fs Titanium, unfortunately money is an object that I still look at say…wheres my magnifying glass…

brommie I tried my Brompton off road as well and found out too it was no good and no fun if not dangerous e.i. tryes sliping, bone shaking ride etc

Thanks for the help everyone I knew we were the most helpful forum, Does anyone have experience with these? (scoll down to 1996)

https://www.montaguebikes.com/montague_history.html

Do you think they are ok for off road?

snafu21

Swissbike X50?

"Montague SwissBike X50 is designed to fold and fit anywhere. With front suspension and all terrain tires, this 18-speed folding mountain bike makes for the perfect light trail bike for weekend excursions, or a rugged commuter bike. The X50 uses all standard 26” mountain bike wheels and components serviceable at any bike shop."

The qualification: https://site.swissbike.com/swissbike/...ss/WAPost.html

The nerds: video - Swiss bike about halfway in:

https://fwd.five.tv/gadget-show/video...-folding-bikes

bhkyte

Montague option is fine.

I have seen Dahon Jetstreams' on ebay ,(new I think), for £450. I can not think of a better bike for the money and purpose that that.
Currently £600 seems best price,
https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-2009-DAHON...#ht_8560wt_967
but wait and I am sure they will come around again for sub £500.

https://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/pr...ding_Bike_2009

Rultland cycles might be worth a try also.

thatsut

snafu21 thanks for the link very nice!

bhkyte I tried a 20" bmx off road to see how it coped by weas not as comfortable a 26" rigid just because of the jolts when going over stuff.

The suspension in the jetsream may help but ive seen it said that it was not really enough for off road. i think the travel is 60. i could gofor the XP but dont have the fund and would buy an airnimal rhno if i had that cash.

thanx

bhkyte

Don't prejudge comfort according to wheel size. There is loads of information/misinformation on this issue here or else where. The main issue is tyre effects and suspension to get cushioning for off road,not wheel size. A BMX is usually a super stiff stunt bike, not made for comfort. Big apple ballon tyre make a huge difference to comfort. 20" bikes can be fine for off-road. For instance you would not consider a 26" stiff racing wheel with narrow tyres off road.

snafu21

Yeah, I hated the 20" full-sus Downtube off-road. I hate my 20" Vitesse off-road. They don't do downhill over 21" boulders very well. With the bouncing and banging already, it's like being trapped inside a tumble-dryer.

Here's thatsut on his new bike in the snow:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX3Y5...eature=related


Actually I just bought a new 26" off-road bike, but it doesn't fold. I prolly shudda bought a Swissbike :-(

Now, because it doesn't fold, I can't brag about it on here. Forgive me, for I have sinned.

Brimstone

I owned an early nonsuspended Montague for several years; it was fine offroad. It was one of the first widely available 26" folders and MANY folks tried to buy it from me. Components were rather low-end. Traded it in Mozambique, I think, for a nice carved wooden chest. There's a very happy African styling around Maputo nowadays. For me it was too cumbersome for travel.

I was always an old-school offroader, before suspension (front or rear) and find it unnecessary and interfering with my feel of the land.

Member FoldsInHalf has done A LOT of offroading on his Dahon Jetstream XP. See his websight here: https://www.debcar.com/

Just how gnarly will you get? Take-the-ski-lift-to-the-top-of-the-mountain gnarly? Or single-track gnarly? Or dirt-road gnarly? You know degree-of-gnarly is directly proportional to the amount of broken/bent stuff in the middle of nowhere...

How will you carry your load? I noticed many long distance off-road tourists in Colorado prefer a trailer.

thatsut

I found it less harsh rolling over stuff at speed with a bike with 26" wheels (out of the saddle) than the rigid with 20" yes the variable is the frame, out of curiosity BHKYTE have you riden your onza trails bike off road say down hill at speed with rock and 1 foot drops? how did it handel if so?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX3Y5...eature=related .....drool !!

snafu21 yes you have sinned!!!! you should go and ask Andrew Ritchie for forgiveness

brimstone

I realise i like to explore thats why i ride my bike, so im really not sure i have toured in some relatively remote places like tibet but id like more remote if possible i have attached an image and a link of the range of riding i like. but in reality its likely to be ingle-track gnarly- to dirt-road gnarly

https://inlinethumb16.webshots.com/43...600x600Q85.jpg

"You know degree-of-gnarly is directly proportional to the amount of broken/bent stuff in the middle of nowhere..." i think i have to add this to my avatar if i can find out how gaffa tape and zip ties

I perviosuly toured with four panniers but it was like riding a train due to the weight next time ill go with two 30 liter backpacks if anything that cant fit comfortably in their i aint taking.. simple. ill probably put these on the back but ill try this out when the time come have any recommendations

snafu21

We have a lot of downhill freeride sites in the UK, where stuff like this happens:

https://video.google.com/videoplay?do...1052421059027#

Not all of that is possible on a Brompton, or indeed a Jetstream, or possibly a Swissbike, but that isn't the point. My 26" Matrix was very capable on the downhill stuff, including riding it down flights of steps when naysayers poo-poo'd folding MTBs, but on loose downhill sections 20" tyres don't dig in, at speed there's enough bounce and slam to have the rider off the bike. I agree its possible, slowly, but for me it's just not pleasant.

I haven't ridden a Jetstream downhill, but I have taken a 20" Downtube downhill, and it is not an experience to be enjoyably repeated. Add in the short fork travel, designed for tarmac, smaller clearances between forks, rims and brakes; mud, rocks and ruts soon put a stop to 20" folding bike downhill freeriding.

The question is: is the Swissbike as good downhill as Montague say it is.? We wait with baited breff. The same question has to be asked of the new lockjaw Matrix, nobody seems to take them seriously offroad.


"You know degree-of-gnarly is directly proportional to the amount of broken/bent stuff in the middle of nowhere..."

Amen!

In the UK, finding a place to ride downhill usaually involves a drive, so carrying stuff around isn't a problem. It all goes in the car.

thatsut

https://video.google.com/videoplay?do...1052421059027# now that does look like fun.!

"We wait with baited breff." .....maybe not to much longer ill let you know how it goes

"In the UK, finding a place to ride downhill usaually involves a drive, so carrying stuff around isn't a problem. It all goes in the car." yeap i know i live in wales eventhough there are plenty of trails they are stil a good 20miles plus so i cant help but think of modifiy the bike in the same way i did my brompton

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ight=brrompton