msh1283

Alright, I'm a weak cat 5 rider. I'm usually stuck in the back 1/2 to 1/3rd of the pack, where things are usually slowing down in corners. In my last two races, I've had two guys shout at me to stop braking so much before corners. I'm staying right on the wheel in front of me, not letting gaps open up. What exactly am I supposed to do? Seems like the only alternative to me is going way off my line, which is stupid. Sitting up doesn't slow me enough, what option do I have besides braking?

Yes, I know. Ride closer to the front and I won't have to worry about it. I'll get there. In the mean time, I'd like to figure out how to avoid pissing people off.

sfwhiteman

If that is actually true, then you can probably ignore the complainers. Keep in mind, it's a bunch of cat 5's doing the yelling.

jdott

They're complaining about what's making you mad anyway. You just happen to be the closest rider, so you catch the scorn. Brush it off. Just be smooth - sudden movements rightfully make people mad. Move up a couple spots every chance you get, it is so much easier near (but not at) the front. But then they'll yell at you for not working enough.

lovestoride

hmm. i was at a crit two days ago where for every corner everyone felt like braking (or at least the couple of guys in front of me). it always surprises me how little people trust their tires, especially people who race crits on semi closed roads (a little traffic on a 2 mile loop, nothing to worry about)

jmsmke

Depends on what you mean by 'braking' If you are just feathering the rear a little to scrub off a bit of speed that is totally normal and ignore the idiots behind you.

However, I've seen guys (and did this a bit myself when I started) who accelerate way too hard before the corner and then have to grab hard on the brakes to avoid running into the person in front of them. Its possible to do this and still not let a gap open up but its not very smooth or predictable riding which may cause some people to justifiably yell.

lovestoride

sorry was not clear enough. i ment like really using the brakes front and rear and a good amount of pressure. i knew that the turns could be taken at very high speeds. i had an off day and was shot out the back and had to tt it to get back to the group and i did not need to brake once during the entire solo effort. it was really only surprising because the people at the ride/race are experienced racers but o well nothing bad happened next time im just going to stay right at the front.

tallmantim

I found if tailgunning you can trust the accordion effect if you know the corner - hence you can drop the wheel in front leading up to the corner, carry more speed through it then gun it a little to reattach.

That way, you are:

1. Not braking hard to hold a wheel
2. Conserving energy
3. Potentially stressing the energy reserves of the guys following behind you
4. Less likely to stack from someone rear ending you through grabbing a handful of brakes.

mkadam68

If it's a cat-5 race, then this is not true.

It's alright to brake a bit. Just don't be locking up your wheels or slowing suddenly. Try letting a small gap develop before the corner, then as those in front of you are slowing, your momentum allows you to catch up and close the gap without pedaling.

You could also go off-line a bit. Don't follow the wheel exactly, so when your speed allow you to pass them, you don't hit them. Then as they accelerate back up to speed, easily, gently get back on their wheel. Then, you've conserved your energy while they wasted theirs.

lovestoride

not a cat 5 race. more of a cat3/4. also the braking was to go from 30 to about 27 so it wasnt like we were going from 20 to 15. it was more just no body wanted to cause any problems in the corners.

crimsonblood

little confusion going on here.. lovestoride managed to hijack. Some of these people are still trying to reply to the OP

mattm

OP: You could let a little gap open up before the corner, then close it in the turn by not braking as much.

And when you do brake, just feather them a bit.

jmsmke

Correct...My post was intended for the OP, not lovestoride

"More of"? so your not quite sure what cat the race was?

carpediemracing 

OP: part of the problem may be what you consider to be "close". If your "close" is not another rider's "close", they may think you're braking too much. If you're comfortable at 5 feet off a wheel, and the guy behind you wants to be within 1 foot, then the rider behind may yell at you to close the gap.

For example, if I'm behind someone that is leaving, say, a 10 foot gap to the next rider, I know that the guy in front of me is working way harder than necessary. I typically won't yell to close the gap (I used to, but not anymore), but I'll probably go around him. I know that all that extra work will tire out the guy and, unless he's way stronger than his riding skills indicate, he'll get shelled. At the best he'll struggle in as pack fodder.

If it's a rider I know, and I know the rider normally rides closer, I'll think about giving him a light shove to help him close the gap. I won't do this to a rider I don't know or don't trust.

For tailgunning (which I do frequently), check out some of the helmet cam clips I've put up. In particular check out Somerville and Harlem. I had the hardest times there, and I really tailgunned. Like almost tailgunned myself off the back.

Harlem:

Somerville:

Note that the camera makes people look further away than they really are. The gaps are smaller than they appear.

cdr

lovestoride

it is like a practice race series so cat 5's can race wiht any group. so there are a few but not many

Creatre

Cool videos, your commentary is humorous.

Basil Moss

If your cornering and power allows you to solo back to the bunch, why aren't you riding at the front dictating the pace? Then you can really nail the corners and scare all the people behind you.

MDcatV

unless you're working to set up a team mate, i cant think of any good reason to ride on the front and dictate pace.

shovelhd

Training race. You want a good hard workout and value that over a win. Take a flyer. You'll never know what it takes to lap the field unless you try.

Grumpy McTrumpy

hmmm

in the toughest 40+ crits that I have done, the hammerheads go to the front and set a pace that fractures the field. When successful, they end up in a "breakaway" that includes several of the strongest guys without any attacks.

MDcatV

was someone talking about a training race? i dont think noobs should go to a training race to get a hard workout. hard workouts and group rides are for that. training races are to train in a racing environment and should be used to evaluate different ways to win and find out successful means to that end. dictating pace in my mind = pulling the field around. that's a bad habit to form.

apples/oranges. these guys arent noobs like the posters in this thread, they know what they're doing will trim the fat and increase odds of winning. a noob pulling the field around, i.e. what i interpreted dictating pace to mean in the context of this discussion, is as i wrote above, a bad thing.

shovelhd

There's no better way to train for a race than to race. Just curious, MDCatV, have you ever lapped the field?

OP, I think you need to relax a bit, move up in the field more. Group rides as MDCatV says are a good way to build your group riding skill at pace.

MDcatV

yes

waterrockets 

Braking in last night's 3/4 race was really annoying. I was on 3rd wheel a couple times going through the tighter corners on the course, and the guys at the front were always hitting their brakes. Drove me freaking crazy. I was able to carry speed and come around on the outside then just surf back in, but it would have been nice to have a bit more speed coming out of the corner.

MDcatV

that's one reason i will never downgrade. despite the ass kickings i've been taking all year

waterrockets 

Yeah, I should probably just do the 123 race, but it didn't fit my schedule last night.