katezila

I'm in a debate with my father that buying a vintage mixte frame and building it up from scratch will be cheeper and better than buying a new Public or Linus mixte and wanting to replace things.
Problem is while I know a decent bit about how to work on bikes, I don't know a thing about building up a bike. Can anyone help me get an idea of what I might be doing?

Ideally I'd like to buy a vintage Motobecane mixte frame and build it up as a 5 semi-upright commuter. But I really don't know how to figure out the appropriate bottom bracket, cranks, wheel size, ect.
Haha I guess what I'm really asking is, how do you figure out how to build up a bike?

2wheelcommute

I'm going through this right now for the first time, and it's been a lot of fun. The parts are pretty much half-bought and assembled, and the other half are picked out (I'm buying it bit by bit with the money I save from commuting by bike).

Your question is pretty general, so I guess I'll answer pretty generally. Start with an overall concept and features you definitely want to include (for me, this meant an IGH, racks/fenders, and disc brakes). Then you need to find a frame that will accommodate your plan. Next, start researching components (and their prices). It'll probably take a lot of research on your first time (it sure has for me), but I find this pretty enjoyable. Try to parcel it out--spend a couple hours reading everything you can about bottom brackets, another day spend a couple hours reading all about headsets, etc.

I found it very helpful to create a Google Documents spreadsheet with my "build plan," listing each component type, options that I was considering, prices, and links to online stores selling those components. I also found it helpful to search for other people who had done similar builds (especially on the same frame) and see what I can take from their experience.

Good luck!

JTGraphics

Building one up from nothing first depends on what you get the parts for.
But in general picking one up built will be cheeper than building one from scratch.
The bigger difference in building one is that if you know what you really want as in parts selection you get to build what you really want component wise!.
If you have no idea what parts you want buy one built.

juls

Not to discourage you, but your Dad may be right. The parts end up costing more than the bike as a whole, if you're not careful. Try to find a used complete mixte from the late 80's-it will have 700c alloy wheels and an alloy crank-and rebuild it. Even the french bikes were pretty much standerized in thread measurements by then. I often buy entire bikes just for parts. Believe it or not-it is usually cheaper. Sell the rest on cl to fund your build. Another good source for rebuilding is a bike co-op. Tools and shared knowledge for diy-even parts. It's a hobby that will grab you. Hope to hear how you make out.

LesterOfPuppets

I converted my ex's Motobecane mixte to a semi-upright with a Terry saddle, old steel 25.4 riser bar, friction Thumbshifters, grips and tires for about $100

Saddle $30
Bar $5
Shifters $15
Grips $8
Tires $30
Tubes $7
Cables $5


I left it 10-speed though. Depending on the year of the Motobecane you get it may have a French BB thread, so you've gotta get a French BB or go with VeloOrange threadless BB. Working out chainline might take some research and could depend on crank you choose.

If you go for a bare frame, everything new build, you'll likely eclipse the price of the low and midrange Public bikes.

hybridbkrdr

NOTE: I only realized AFTER I made this list that actually, that bike24.com has a M590 trekking group so the cost of having a trekking group (a crankset with a chainguard) would be even lower than on this list.

Nashar touring fork $49.00
https://www.nashbar.com/bikes//Produc...2_511246_-1___
Nashbar touring frame $99.00
https://www.nashbar.com/bikes//Produc...2_511239_-1___
Shimano Deore LX trekking (touring) groupset (crankset, rear derailleur, front derailleur, shifters, brake levers, brakes, cassette, chain) as low as 271.21 euro (depending on which options you choose); with shipping to North America (means you don't pay European VAT tax) is $368.33 US dollars (the exchange rate fluctuates)
https://www.bike24.com/p29129.html
WTB Freedom Ryder 23 rims 36 hole $18.45 (times two = $36.90) (I put the link here from eBikestop for people who want to order from Canada, shipping for large items is cheaper from eBikestop last time I ordered)
https://www.ebikestop.com/freedom_ryd...rim-RM2241.php
Shimano Tiagra rear hub 36 hole $27.89
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=414678
Shimano Tiagra front hub 36 hole $19.84
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=407883
(I haven't chosen that yet, you can look below why)
Velox rim strip $1.83 (times two = $3.66)
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=432533
Dimension spoke protector $3.00
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=419815
Sunlite wheel reflectors $2.49
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...oducts_id=5777
DT Swiss Champion 14g (2.0mm) spokes
for rear wheel
(I measured both hub and rim and used two sizing calculators for that rim and rear hub and chose 287mm and 289mm spokes, 18 of each length)
287mm $0.43 (times 18 = $7.74)
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ducts_id=32422
289mm $0.51 (times 18 = $9.18)
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ducts_id=32640
for front wheel using this calculator https://lenni.info/edd/ says it's 290mm both sides
290mm $0.51 (times 36 = $18.36)
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ducts_id=32638
DT Swiss Champion 12mm, 2.0mm brass nipples $0.26 (times 72 = $18.72)
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ducts_id=32619
Dimension chainstay protector clear $5.95
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=501118
Origin8 classique sport seatpost 27.2mm x 300mm silver $26.08
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=509738
Origin8 seatpost clamp 31.8mm gold $5.99
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=431892
Origin8 headset spacers 1-1/8" (ten x 10mm) silver $6.20
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=431892
Origin8 headset threadless 1-1/8" gold $31.99
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=431753
Origin8 stem threadless 1-1/8" 25.4mm silver $21.99
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=431946
Origin8 handlebars 625mm long 25.4mm clamp 40mm high silver $19.80
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=431636
Black Ops platform pedals clear $14.99
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=432203
WTB Freedom Relax saddle light brown $36.98
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=433923
Dimension hand-stiched leather grips light brown $14.88
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=408543
Continental tubes 700x28-47mm Presta $6.26 (times two = $12.52) (or the thicker Michelin tubes)
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=424089
Continental TourRide tires 700x37mm $26.96 (times two = $53.92) (or Michelin Tracker tires) (you can also get these in cream color with reflective strips from bikexperts.com in Germany if you ask them)
https://www.amazon.com/Continental-To.../dp/B0013DZGVG
Well, here the total without the shipping cost for amazon.com, niagaracycle and eBikestop and cost of assembly is $915.40
Sunlite bottle cages $1.99 (times two if you want $3.98)
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ducts_id=12697
Sunlite Tec HD tourer rack $24.99 (these were actually all silver when they arrived)
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=430988
Axiom Rainrunner trekk reflex 700c fenders $54.00
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=426889
Avenir Softside City panniers $42.56
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=507460
Trek Lime bell $7.99 (you can click on additional views to see the 8 colors, I would choose white)
https://store.trekbikes.com/jump.jsp?...ProductID=1439
Civia two leg kickstand $27.00 (right now I'm not sure what the top plate model means yet)
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=710999
Halo hex key skewers $15.00
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...s.php?id=12529
Cateye Strada cycling computer CD-RD100 $21.51 (this one is the black on sale but I've seen the white on sale before)
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ducts_id=13708
The total at this point would be $1112.43
Kryptonite Kryptolock Value Series 2 (make sure to grease the mechanism inside) $32.16
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ducts_id=30504
Giro Hex helmet $67.95 (depends on size, color)
https://www.amazon.com/Giro-Mountain-...6885571&sr=8-2
Dimension eyeglass mirror $10.50
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=411405
Fox Racing gloves $21.95
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=702678
Bellwether rain jacket $119.99
https://www.amazon.com/Bellwether-201...888369&sr=1-44
Bellwether AquaNo pants $60.39
https://www.amazon.com/Bellwether-Aqu...6895452&sr=8-3
The total at this point would be $1425.37
If you chose to go with a dynamo front hub and front and rear dynamo lights, this could be a choice
Busch&Muller D'Toplight Plus rear dynamo light 17 euro
https://www.bike-x-perts.com/en/produ...ucts_id/133927
Busch&Muller Lumotec Lyt Plus 25 lux front light for dynamo hub 24 euro
https://www.bike-x-perts.com/en/produ...ucts_id/359500
(you could also choose the IQ Cyo 60 lux front light but that's 64 euro)
https://www.bike-x-perts.com/en/produ...ucts_id/359497
Shimano DH-3N72 dynamo hub 58 euro (actually, I wanted to choose the Deore LX model for this message but the spoke calculator did not include this one, I can only measure it once I order it)
https://www.bike-x-perts.com/en/produ...ucts_id/242167
(The spokes for this would be 283mm both sides with the WTB Freedom Ryder 23 rim)
DT Swiss Champion 283mm spokes $0.49 each (times 36 = $17.64)
https://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd.asp?id=92390
So, if you chose a dynamo hub 58 euro, front light 24 euro, rear light 17 euro (plus the 283mm spokes minus the 290mm spokes and Tiagra front hub), it would be $1539.26 without the shipping from bikexperts

You can always use the frame sizing calculator at ColoradoCyclists.

EDIT: These handlebars and stem are on sale right now. Just received mine for a cheaper build.
https://store.icyclesusa.com/handleba...40c-p8227.aspx
https://store.icyclesusa.com/cannonda...er-p36522.aspx

skilsaw

A couple of people have said building a bike from scratch is more expensive than buying one already made. Add me to that list.

If I wanted to build a new bike, I would establish a good relationship with a local bike store and lean on them for advice as I build. They would probably only be happy to do this if I bought all the parts through them. This may be more expensive than buying parts with the best price on the internet. Count this extra cost as the cost of getting into the hobby of bicycle building. Tools are another cost of getting into the hobby. While they aren't part of the bike, they are part of the cost of the bike. If you buy good tools, you will only have to buy them once.

Once you've finished your first bike with the LBS help, you should know what you need to know and be able to build your second bike alone.

3alarmer

Besides pointing out that hybridbkrdr
has possibly way too much time on his hands, there
is a valid argument here and in the postings previous
to it. Buying individual parts and "building up" your
ideal bike is almost never the most cost effective
method.

You see a lot of $700-1200 fixies for sale
on Craigslist for just that reason. Somebody got
carried away in pursuit of a dream and now is trying
to cash out.

When you add into the mix that what you have
chosen as your ideal bike is French:
I can envision a long, frustrating, and possibly
expensive project,that in the end may or may
not work as well as the prebuilts you've mentioned.

Do yourself a favor and either listen to your dad,
or as an alternative buy a whole and entire French
mixte bike that you should be able to make into
an upright commuter with a pretty small investment.
Just don't get carried away with replacing stuff
that works already pretty well, and buy something
that's in reasonable shape to begin with.

triplebutted

Those are great estimates. The hard part is, "is the part the correct part and what are the unforseens". Those sometimes will kill 'ya.

cyccommute 

I would also point out that hybridbkrdr cost is the about the same, when you add in his extras, as a Surly LHT Complete touring bike. And the Surly has a better mix of components.

Building your own bike is always more expensive than buying a whole bike. How much more is just a matter of what you want to put on it. For something like an old Motobecane mixte, you are starting with a pig's ear. Making it into a silk purse is going to be an expensive proposition. Either buy a new complete bike or pick up a frame that is worthy of the parts you want to hang on it.

You don't build a bike from parts because it's cheap. You do it because you want something that is way better than you can get elsewhere. What you get is going to be better, in your eyes and probably in truth, than what you could buy, but it's not going to be cheaper.

novacoke

In addition to parts, I would say you really need to consider the following:
- Value of your time spent learning & building
- Tools

I've built up my own road bike, and I came out of it much more expensive than buying brand new. I did it to learn better mechanic skills, become updated with new bike technology, and because I wanted to build a bike tool collection.

novacoke

An example of how the tools ended up costing me:

Bottom Bracket Tool - $20
Cassette Tool - $15
Chain Whip - $15
Torque Wrench (for Carbon Fibre) - $50
Crank Puller - $15

About $115 there. I already had wrenches, sockets & hex keys available. When you go vintage, now you get into crappy situations where you may need to spend money on BB cup / freewheel / cassette tools - for example, you may need a suntour freewheel tool to remove the old freewheel, and shimano freewheel tool to install a new freewheel... etc. etc.

MichaelW

If you want shiny new components then its usually much cheaper to buy complete bikes. The manufacturers buy components at wholesale prices, not retail, and some brands can purchase below cost. You have to buy at retail prices.
If you have a good-enough old frame that is worth building up, you can accumulate used or discounted parts but its a project for the backburner.
I would be wary of investing in any frame with a French bottom bracket thread.

BCRider

Just how much of the old did you want to replace with new? If you'll be using only the old frame then for sure your costs for all new parts to put onto an old frame will blow your budget out of the water like an Exocet missle taking out a small fishing boat. The only way to make it work is to buy an older bike that is in decent enough shape to start with and that has an acceptable assortment of the main components. After all, it's an old mixte frame and commonly they had medium quality steel tubing at best. You're not going to find any triple butted fancy CrMo tubes on a typical Peugeot frame. So there's not much point in loading it down with all new and super light components. Far better to keep it a 10 or 12 speed as it was originally and just clean and relube all the major areas with bearings, add a new chain and cables and likely new brake pads and spend some money on nice tires for it. The point here being that a mixte bike isn't really a go fast toy. It's in its prime when ridden at casual speeds. The typical upright and relaxed riding position just won't allow the rider to really get their all into it due to this. As such there's really just no point in trying to slick it up with the latest and lightest parts when the old school parts will work just as well under such circumstances.

About a year and a bit ago I found such a beat up mixte in the back alley set out for disposal. I wheeled it home and serviced it up. Much of the work was to just clean it and polish the parts which had become quite corroded. And alloy corrosion is quite ugly. Fourtunetly the chromed fenders hadn't become too badly rusted and the slight spotting cleaned up nicely with some chrome polish. New cables and housings and a new chain plus a swap from the steel seat post and handlebars to alloy parts from my parts box went into the bike along with a new and better front caliper and forged levers that were off an older mountain bike. The rest was all just refurbishment and tuning. Oh, I forgot that the original wheels were steel which I replaced with some single wall aluminium wheels from another project bike. If you don't have a similarly equipped parts box you'll need to hit up the local bike junk shops and find such things to use. But to keep costs down go used wherever possible.

In the end the bike came out just fine. It was too small for me but I rode it around for a week on shopping errands and it was very pleasant and sped along just fine other than my legs not being able to straighten out. So I chose it for rides where there were no hills.

These are the pictures of the bike before I started working on it. I can't seem to find the after pictures so perhaps they are still on my camera. I ended up giving it to a friend that is riding it on a regular basis. I still need to find a nice wicker basket for her to replace the old rusty wire one that I tossed.

Flying Merkel

I just finished up building my first frame, a Nashbar MTB frame. I had a lot of components on hand. The budget was blown through quickly. Some of the added expense came from components that didn't fit or were in worse shape than I realized. Poor planning on my part. I upgraded the fork, brakes, and front rim.

Buying a complete used bike off Craigslist would have been cheaper with a little patience. Love the Nashbar bike, but probably won't do it again. If cheap transpo is your goal, buy a good used bike. I enjoyed the project and learned a lot.

rccardr 

+10 everything that's been said here. However...

If you find someone who is willing to build you a bike and who does that as a hobby or small business, then the cost to build what you want will come down considerably. Just understand that the cost to build what you want will undoubtedly be somewhat higher than purchasing used as-is off of CL. For example, I construct about 12-15 build-to-order bikes per year as a hobby. Almost all of them have mid-level or better period components like 2nd generation Shimano 105 or Shimano 600 tricolor, 6-7-8 speed rear gearsets and double or triple cranksets, and newly refinished powder coated frames. They look, shine, and ride like, well, a new bike. Most of them sell for under $800. I built my wife a lovely mid 80's Trek 420 mixte last summer with 7 speeds out back and a triple in front, using low riser bars and grip shifters. She loves it so much that she's talking about bike trips in France and Italy. Total cost for that project was around $500 because the frame was in such good condition.

If you ask around, you'll probably find someone like me in your area. However, much more likely that they will work on something Japanese or American (Schwinn, Nishiki, Miyata, Fujio- all of which made really nice mixte frames) than French.

HillRider

The BIG difference between you and the OP is that you had the background, experience and tools before you got started so you knew what would work and what was needed. That's a huge advantage for saving both time and money.

LesterOfPuppets

I was actually still pretty green back then. Must've been about 1995. There was likely a money savings advantage from access to fantastic bike shops in Portland that had a nice array of used parts to choose from. I could've gone cheaper on the saddle, but the Terry was really nice, well worth the outlay.

I'm sure the OP could do that bare minimum conversion pretty easily if there's a decent bike shop in Detroit, just arrive with my list and the bike and explain goals to shop folks.

HillRider

OK, you had expert help which is just about as good as personal experience. Also, apparently you had an already complete bike which only needed a few parts to be changed and/or upgraded. The OP is asking about starting with a bare frame and that's a much more involved (and costly) project.

hybridbkrdr

Well, like you sort of said, it really depends on what you think you want/need. In reality, I was thinking along the lines of, what happens if I try out shorter distance touring and it works out and I want to go farther and farther distances? Then having a bicycle with a front dynamo hub to save money on batteries would be a little more ideal for me. I watch Forex prices in the middle of the night which means I'd be up at night during the weekends anyway.

But, the other details go on and on like the saddle, would really prefer a saddle with a hole in the middle, the seatpost you can adjust every angle to put it at -1.5% like someone said in a post here, maybe an adjustable stem, road crankset which I read places your feet closer to the bike which is more comfortable for long distances, mountain bike cassette which has a bigger range than a road cassette for climbing hills, bar end shifters mounted on Paul Thumbies which mean you can use friction shifting can be faster than with indexed shifting and rarely have to adjust your front and rear derailleurs, then other possible goodies like creme colored Continental TourRide tires from bikexperts in Germany (you have to ask them, not listed), sealed headset, better quality bottom bracket (for square taper, the BB-UN54 instead of BB-Un26) (besides, people say they prefer square taper in mud, rain)(also friction shifting requires 8 speed components even though rear derailleurs don't have speeds), making sure you have better quality hubs than ones put on certain bikes to save cost... Also, when you buy a frameset, the fork is not cut yet which means you could possibly have the bars raised taller than you would on a complete bike if it's already cut short. And that could make a world of difference on longer distances. All in all, if you take a complete bike and customize it the way you want exactly, then it may cost way more. I was never completely satisfied with what I've found anyway in complete bikes anyway. Having the bike of my dreams would be a relief to me.

If I wasn't too lazy, I'd make an online petition that people can sign to get Shimano to produce Deore/Tiagra 8 speed components again and 8 speed friction thumb shifters that are made out of metal, not plastic under $40 so people could get friction shifting at a reasonable cost and reasonable quality. This should be available for trekking bikes. Anyway, enough ranting from me. I enjoyed learning from the people here though. I've ridden wheels for a long time and had never really done the research. I didn't even know dynamo hubs existed.

Rob P.

General rule of thumb: price bike already built. Take that price and multiply by 1.5 for cost of building identical bike yourself.

LesterOfPuppets

The only pro help I had was for the tires. The only tires I was familiar with were 26" MTB (I knew enough not to get the Schwinn or fractional 26") and 700c. The Moto had 27" chrome and I had no idea how many 27" standards there were.

I was already somewhat familiar with MTB controls installation, I reckon. I just got lucky that the old MTB riser bar I got fit the Moto stem.

I already mentioned in my first post here that a frame-up build cost would quickly eclipse the cost of an off the shelf Public bike. I think I'd rather ride a slightly modified Motobecane personally. I loved that bike after conversion.

3alarmer

Forgive me, but that is not the world in
which I find myself living. I mean no
offense, but the chances of doing this
in Sacramento at a for profit, conventional
LBS are between zero and none.
Maybe not the way it should be, but
the way it is.

Respectfully,
Mike Larmer

BCRider

All that I quoted above just further yells out that you should not start with a mixte of any age be it used or new.

All the stuff you say you want is the sort of things you put onto a frame that is sized to fit you really well right out of the gate. A proper frame that comes with the sort of top tube length and will give you a more efficient rider cockpit than you'll ever get from a mixte frame. Remember that mixtes are cruiser bikes for casual riding on flat and fairly short commutes. And the tubesets they use have more in common with water pipes than they do with springs that will reflect your energy back and put it down to the road efficiently.

What your description of all you want says that you need a good quality touring bike or cyclocross bike that has the brazeons, brakes and clearances that allow it to be fitted with fenders and racks as needed in the future. And by buying a good bike in the $800 to $1500 range you'll likely find that you don't need to change much. Or at least the stuff you do change out will be worth something to someone if you want to swap out the bars and controls to suit yourself and sell off the stuff you remove to aid in funding the conversions.

LesterOfPuppets

The places I went to source many of my parts were Co-ops. The used parts they sell are all donated, so the $5 handlebar in my build list still carried a healthy profit margin even after figuring in the cost of processing the donated bike it came off of. They also sell new stuff also. EDIT: might as well plug the co-ops too. Community Cycling Center and City Bikes.

It is a bummer if you don't have such a shop in Sacto, maybe some day. Dunno if there are any co-ops in the Motor City, home of the OP.

I think the saddle and tires were the only bits I got at an all-new-stuff run-of-the-mill bike shop. They were great helping me out with tires for that bike. $15 a tire isn't bad. $30 for the Terry saddle wasn't bad either. I might as well give 'em a plug -River City Bikes.

I imagine there has to be at least one decent shop in Detroit that could point the OP in the right direction. Ask for take-off parts, etc. Cheap saddles are easy to come by that way. A lot of shops have a used tire bin for $2-5, etc.