horatio 

A recent thread on riding smoothly got me to thinking about form, specifically for climbing. I've noticed lately that after climbing (what little there is around these parts), my lower back is arched or bowed out.

This is potentially bad for me because I have a herniated disc at L5-S1, so I'm forcing myself to keep the lower back straighter (when I can remember - lol!), but I find this quite uncomfortable.

Biomechanics are obviously unique to the individual, but I was wondering if good riding form always requires concentration?

I'm also wondering if doing planks and other core-strengthening exercises would help in maintaining a flatter lower back.

mvnsnd

I also find that I have to remind myself to clean up my form while riding. Doing planks and core strengthening will help.

Makel

maintaing?

Swimming is good.

Brian Ratliff

Only when something starts hurting. A lot of back problems come from a lack of core strength.

thedeadone

I find that when I consentrate on my form my speed increases slightly. Its wierd.

hhnngg1

I don't think it takes much core at all to stay smooth. Almost none, actually. You do have to get your back used to the hunched-over position on long rides, but that doesn't have to do with smoothness.

The best way to build smoothness, imo, is to buy a set of straightforward rollers (NOT the ones with the fancy e-motion float feature, which compensates for your lack of fluiditiy) and ride them regularly for awhile. It will become glaringly obvious where your nonsmooth areas are. When I first used rollers, I kept flying off the front due to a herky jerky acceleration - staying in the middle of the track has never been a problem. Also, you'll get used to using your weight to adjust on turns rather than jerking the handlebars - riding rollers is like riding on ice and any little handlebar turn gets a very exaggerated response, so you'll definitely know you're oversteering.

The difference I noticed most between my smooth roller accels and the jerkier one I was using before, was just being conscious of the way you accelerate. On the rollers, the upper body remains pretty much rock solid still as you accelerate, and the harder you accelerate, the more effort you spend staying still (ironically). Obviously, standing acclerations are very difficult but doable on the rollers. It's all technique - has very little to do with strength or endurance.

Trouble

Position on the bike is what creates the flatter back. There is a great thread going around on lowering bars.

If I start out slowly and ramp up, never going all out (except towards the end of the ride) my form and comfort are much better and I actually enjoy the ride more.

Brian Ratliff

It's not about being smooth. It's about the OPs back becoming arched when pushing hard. This is due to a weak core.

The back should be more or less straight. That it starts arching is because the legs have overpowered the core and the spine is being used to counter the force on the pedals rather than the musculature of your core. It's like a fishing rod with a fish on the line. The rod bends way over because it isn't very stiff. Basically, instead of using the core musculature to keep your body rigid to transfer force from your arms to support the force from your legs, you are using your spine to do the same job, which will put a lot of pressure on your spine and give you back pain.

Looigi

Flatter more arched, ... I'm not sure whether my back is flat or arched but I have a position that works, and I found that for me, lower bars work better. The tops are 8.5 cm below my saddle. The flip side is it puts more stress on your hands and arms. I also agree that pedaling hard and pulling on the bars while doing it puts a lot of stress on the lower back. This might sound odd but I found that wiggling a bit as I pedal puts some motion into the lower back which helps. If you watch pros, especially during time trials, you'll see them do it too.

horatio 

Brian, no pain so far, but I'd like to ride some real climbs this summer, so I need to address the core. Guess I'll start today.

hhnngg1

Not to be devil's advocate here, but I'm still not sure that sounds right? Reference for that?

My back hurts every time I get back on the bike for long rides after not doing them for awhile - but it doesn't seem to do with my core, at all. Actually, because I'm usually swimming pretty hard and lifting weights on top of that when I'm not on the bike a lot, my core is pretty strong when I'm getting back to the bike, but the back muscles still have a hard time those first 2-3 rides of 5+hrs.

Usually after that though, it's good to go. I'm not sure what kind of back workouts you're referring to that would help with that - I can deadlift 250+, but that doesn't help with a 5 hr bike position.

8Lives

Not being sarcastic at all - but are you sure your core is really strong? I thought mine was (also tons of swimming) until I started seriously bouldering. And then I realized how weak it really was, despite swimming sit-ups etc. I have really concentrated on doing the right core stuff for a couple of years now. And it makes a huge difference, on the bike and everywhere else.

I think a good test is to hang from a pull-up bar (rings even better) and do 15-20 slow leg raises, pause at 90 degrees then release. If you can't do at least 15 then the good news is that you have a lot of room to get stronger.

chado445510

Since there is no hope of my doing this, I will say that my legs are too muscly and heavy to possibly lift them for that long.

hhnngg1

My core is strong. I can do 30 of the leg raises - not just up to 90 degrees, but all the way up to the bar (toes to fingertips.) My forearms actually wear out before my abs - with the grip assist straps, I can likely do more (but I don't like using them since my forearms need to beef up.)

I used to lift weights very seriously for most of my younger life. Now most of that lifting has been replaced by aerobic efforts, but I still put in good efforts. That leg lift exercise is also a key movement for martial arts training, which I also did a lot of back in my younger days, so that's another reason I'm very good at them. (I tried to learn an iron-cross, but the arms are the tough part!)

The deadlift, IMO, is a much better test of your bike-specific core, as it tests your back muscles, which are the ones in question when you're transferring power on the bike.

Brian Ratliff

Your back shouldn't hurt. Ever. From biking or anything else. Your back muscles are built to support your spine when you are standing upright, not support external loads. This is why you are taught to lift from your legs. Your back muscles alone are not your core; the core is the whole system of muscles that work to keep your abdomen rigid so you can transfer load from your legs to your arms (which are holding onto something to keep your body steady).

One of the better workouts for your core is the plank position. Or you can add some upper body work to it and just do pushups.

climber7

even better - both at once. do a plank for 60 seconds, go straight into 10 pushups, straight back to the plank. repeat a few times. one of my favorite core workouts. i usually do 3 minutes (3x plank/pushup rotation), rest for 3 minutes, and do another 3 minutes. start with less if you need to and build up to as much as you can do.

make sure you pay attention to your body position on the plank...keep your back straight and don't let your butt sag.

8Lives

Well, you probably don't have a core issue! I've been working (not that successfully) on an iron cross and a front lever (almost there). At 51 it doesn't come quickly but it does come with work. I don't lift weights, but rings are tons of fun...

rat fink

Nice save.

CPcyclist

I work on form during slower training rides just for that. Muscle memory is very important to this. With that said I am starting to work more on my core and am noticing more improvements. The OPs back issues are likely a combination of issues from core to position on the bike, have they thought about getting a fit done?

Terex

I always focus on form. When I ride in spin class over the winter, I sit at the front where I can observe myself in the mirror. I really try to minimize movement that wastes energy. Guys I ride with have told me that they really like to ride behind me because I'm so smooth. It didn't come naturally... When in full training mode, I try to do yogalates classes several times a week. The stronger my core, the smoother my riding. But I'm always thinking about it. That and breathing.

hhnngg1

The notion of your back not hurting if you're going on your first long ride of the season (5+ hrs) doesn't sound right to me.

Even with a perfect bike fit, you'll be in a slightly forward angled position on a road bike. Not straight up ramrod straight. 5 hrs in that position, for the inexperienced, is going to be tough.

Try it on a TT bike, and it's really tough, even though amateur racers routinely use TT bikes for 112 mile triathlon bike legs and stay aero nearly the whole way. I can't imagine that a 'core strength' solution would remedy being in a TT position, even a slack one, for 6 hrs.

I'd also feel similarly doubtful by telling the local gym rat who benches tons of weights for hours on end, that he could get on a road bike for 5+ hours, and have no back pain because he's got great core strength. Highly unlikely.

On the other hand, you can get the most atrophic looking rider (Rasmussen?), get him used to at least sitting on a bike for 5 hrs at a time, and he'll have no back pain on those rides within weeks, if not days.

colombo357

No, I have "normal" form by default.

Some people have very bad form, namely knees out like they're doing a penguin dance. Those guys really need to break that habit by actively thinking about their form (and getting a damn fitting).

Brian Ratliff

Why is it that people insist that pain is okay? Fatigue, sure, but pain is unusual; it's your body's way of telling you something isn't right.