the mayneframe

Anyone heard in cycling circles or better yet read in the highway code anything about waiting at a stoplight with a weight detection sensor?

I have heard that if you are at a light that has an auto detection system after two minutes you can treat that light as flashing yellow... 'proceed with caution'.

Any truth to this?

the mayneframe

To follow up on my previous post I found this page that helps define the problem. According to them there is not such authority to proceed through a light with an actuator:
https://www.bikexprt.com/bicycle/actuator.htm

Onions

THIS. Tried it for the first time today, and it worked EVERY TIME. No more walking over to the ped button for me~

AltheCyclist

Probably depends on your state law. In Colorado, statute reads, "Every person riding a bicycle or electrical assisted bicycle shall have all of the rights and duties applicable to the driver of any other vehicle"

So, no. But, if your light never turns green (i.e. the weight (or usually, induction) sensor doesn't trip because it's a bike), you legally could run it and claim the signal was "defective" (which makes it a 4-way stop). I can't imagine this actually happening, that is, getting a ticket for running an empty intersection, so the debate is likely moot. Personally, I look at common-sense approach to red lights: Stop, if safe to proceed, do so.

bigbenaugust 

In California, it's 3 cycles of the light or three minutes.

On my commute, it is never that empty out there... I never have to wait that long for a car to show up and hit the sensor for me if it doesn't pick me up. But most/all of the lights do.

But if I am out at 5am or something... I never wait the full three minutes if I happen across a light that doesn't detect me.

Seattle Forrest

That's what I do from the start. Unless it's not safe to proceed; then I wait until it is.

AltheCyclist

From the article above:
"For those of us with carbon-fiber composite bikes: metal cranks or rims should be enough to trigger the better actuators. But the long-term answer might include an industry-standardized loop of thin wire built into the bicycle's wheels or frame, or an active electronic device. If the traffic engineers had taken a responsible approach toward bicyclists, they would have foreseen the problem and worked with the bicycle industry to develop a standard solution."

Does this sound stupid? Spending all kind of time/money to engineer a bike-actuator ... or would it make more sense to enact the "Idaho Rule" in every state ?

merkong

traffic, not traffic lights, dictate my rides...

lostarchitect 

Are you sure? When I lived in CA, I had to go to traffic school one time (don't ask), and as I was constantly having this problem with my motorcycle, I asked the sheriff instructing the class about it. His response was "turn right." He said I couldn't go though the light no matter how long I waited or how safe it is. I disregarded his advice, of course.

Rimmer

I'm going to try this to see if it works. I come across a lot of those lights that don't change.

AltheCyclist

I'm curious, are there a lot of roads out there that have heavy auto traffic two directions and virtually none from the other directions so that this is a problem?
Usually all four directions are either active or dead so worrying about the actuator is not a problem. I.e. you simply stop, look, and go.
I have seen turn lanes that never actuate and you can easily skip a cycle or two, but then it's easy enough to do a straight-across, then turn at the corner as a work around.

sggoodri

In NC, the rule for motorcyclists is that they must wait three minutes before concluding that the signal is not working (since that's almost always longer than the maximum cycle time) after which the signal may be treated as a stop sign. There is no statute here for bicyclists, but the same logic applies.

At a very busy intersection or one with poor sight lines, it may be impossible to safely proceed without signal protection. This is why it is important for engineers to design and tune signals to detect all vehicle types.

Traffic signals with buried demand actuators use metal detection, not weight, to detect vehicles. These loop detectors use elecromagnetic induction principles based on Lenz's law to detect conductive objects above them. They can easily be adjusted to detect metal bicycle rims. The closest signal to my house will detect an aluminum bicycle rim, with no other metal, placed over the center wire cut, where the alternating electromagnetic field is strongest. I used a nylon bolt to attach an aluminum rim to a piece of wood in order to test this, and to provide my city's public works department with a compact calibration device for bicycle detection.

https://www.humantransport.org/bicycl...nals/green.htm

qualla

IANAL but, this seems as if it must be a state by state, or even town-by-town issue. In wisconsin, small vehicles
"...may, after stopping as required under subd. 1. not less than 45 seconds, proceed cautiously through the intersection before the signal turns green if no other vehicles are present at the intersection to actuate the signal and the operator of the motorcycle, moped, motor bicycle, or bicycle reasonably believes the signal is vehicle actuated. "
My impression is that "reasonably" translates to "pretty d*mn sure" - and, sensibly, it only seems to apply if you won't interfere with pedestrians or with traffic that has the green light.

Rimmer

Yes, I see them. In fact the very first main road from where I live has some sensor whatever it is, but I didn't see the boxes on the pavement. It might be video detection? Today I went a small tour about 18 miles and came across something that looked like this on the pavement before a traffic signal light at a 4-way.



The left and right streets were on a highway with 45mph speed limit I think. Straight ahead was a main road. The other one road had no traffic with a dead end. I didn't try the method, because some truck pulled up along side me. I notice the detectors off of non busy roads that lead to high traffic roads like highways.

nashcommguy

+1 W/a quick look 'round for any LEOs. Then I treat the stop light like a stop sign. That being said my regular commute routed around stop lights to parallel roads using stop signs. There's only one section where there are more than one TL. Plenty of cars, though so there's never a question of having to wait more than one cycle.

bhchdh 

Virginia Code 46.2-833 says:


Notwithstanding any other provision of law, if a driver of a motorcycle or moped or a bicycle rider approaches an intersection that is controlled by a traffic light, the driver or rider may proceed through the intersection on a steady red light only if the driver or rider (i) comes to a full and complete stop at the intersection for two complete cycles of the traffic light or for two minutes, whichever is shorter, (ii) exercises due care as provided by law, (iii) otherwise treats the traffic control device as a stop sign, (iv) determines that it is safe to proceed, and (v) yields the right of way to the driver of any vehicle approaching on such other highway from either direction.

wphamilton

After reading this link I triggered the recalcitrant left signal on my commute for the first time ever today. Thank you.

dedhed

I have a couple I can trip, most not, on my commute. All have a push button for peds if need be. I proceed when safe or to hit the next light up on green.

dscheidt

Call your city, county, or state highway department. Complain. Get everyone you know who rides through the intersection do the same. Call your city council member's office. Complain. Get everyone you know who rides through the intersection to do the same. Squeeky wheels get greased.

jsdavis

The pedestrian buttons will work, but often they are far off to the side and forward some. A hazard I have found is that occasionally one or more cars will pull up to the light as I am waiting for my green and then I have to figure out how to get back into traffic safely. In other situations, it can lead to the dreaded right hook.

More irritating are the intersections where pedestrians are prohibited on one leg of the intersection so proceeding straight means crossing three times.

I really only encounter a few light controlled intersections on my commute and I have successfully tripped most lights. The ones I have the most problem with are the circle shaped loops and the loooong rectangular ones; about the length of two cars or so.

kevin_stevens

No.

CVC 21800

https://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21800.htm

And, of interest but not really helpful: https://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21450_5.htm

KeS

kevin_stevens

His answer is BS, anyway. There are many intersections with designated left and right turn lanes, which almost universally have solid white lines separating them. It's illegal to cross those lines to make a right hand turn. *Theoretically* it's not illegal to back up down the street until you are clear of all intersection markings, then change lanes to the right-hand one, pull forward, and turn right; but that's totally impractical and unsafe anywhere but an intersection with no traffic whatever.

The reality is that the signal is inoperative for your vehicle, and most states provide for you to treat it as a stop or yield sign in that case. Cops may write you for it anyway, and to my certain knowledge some cops will lie through their teeth about how long you waited; and it will be up to a judge to decide what to do about it. Yes, I've gotten that ticket in the middle of the night on a motorcycle after waiting over five minutes in a left turn lane. Cop claimed he observed me ride up and do a stop-and-go.

KeS

tcs

In Texas, if the light does not change you are legally required to wait there astride your cycle/motorbike until the trumpet sounds and time shall be no more.

CliftonGK1

RCW states 2 cycles of the light and then proceed with caution. I know which lights on my route will and will not trigger for a bicycle, so I follow the "no cop, no foul" rule regarding the intersection. If it's clear when I'm approaching I'll just go right through. Pretty easy to see for cross traffic on a flat straight 1/2 mile sections with no obstructions, at 5am before most people are even awake around here.

gamedic

I pulled up to an intersection on my motorcycle once and waited about five minutes. It was late at night with almost no traffic. I finally decided to go through regardless of the red traffic light. As soon as I was in the intersection a Georgia State Trooper who had been sitting about a hundred yards up the highway in the dark came after me. I still don't know what the Georgia law is.