Lets talk heart rates
04-04-12, 02:42 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,429
Bikes: 2013 orca
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Lets talk heart rates
So I've been reading up on what my heart rate should be and zone training etc., today I went out on I do pretty regularly when riding. Note: I have been pretty inactive due to work and traveling so much.
Yesterday I rode about half of that trip ending up on the top of a fairly "fun" hill. My BPM hit 203 although my garmin said 202, and it scared it. I didn't feel much different from when I usually rode that hill but I decided to look into it.
My max HR should be 190 according to the calculator, today I rode and hit 190+ on numerous occasions all the way up to 199 on our steepest but shortest hill, which coincidentally is called "cardiac".
Is it possible my max HR is in fact not 190? I have been running in the off season at the hotels for longer distances than I usually run, can you condition yourself to increase your max HR or am I just overdoing it?
I like to push it when I'm riding and get the most out of it rather than ambling around. I don't see any other way to get faster if I'm in zone 4...it was sooooo slooowwww. it seemed like I was in zone 5 a lot. Keep in mind, it was very windy so I had to push harder to maintain 17-20mph
https://connect.garmin.com/activity/164745257
Yesterday I rode about half of that trip ending up on the top of a fairly "fun" hill. My BPM hit 203 although my garmin said 202, and it scared it. I didn't feel much different from when I usually rode that hill but I decided to look into it.
My max HR should be 190 according to the calculator, today I rode and hit 190+ on numerous occasions all the way up to 199 on our steepest but shortest hill, which coincidentally is called "cardiac".
Is it possible my max HR is in fact not 190? I have been running in the off season at the hotels for longer distances than I usually run, can you condition yourself to increase your max HR or am I just overdoing it?
I like to push it when I'm riding and get the most out of it rather than ambling around. I don't see any other way to get faster if I'm in zone 4...it was sooooo slooowwww. it seemed like I was in zone 5 a lot. Keep in mind, it was very windy so I had to push harder to maintain 17-20mph
https://connect.garmin.com/activity/164745257
04-04-12, 02:46 PM
#2
Not actually Tmonk
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 14,528
Bikes: road, track, mtb
Liked 3,491 Times
in
1,831 Posts
god this has been gone over soo many times...
don't believe the calculator, or 220bpm-age or whatever you're working with.
At BEST they're averages.
im 25 and I can go over 200bpm at the drop of a hat, any time.
i've seen 216
my LTHR is 187
and I routinely do 20' intervals at 180-187 bpm
don't believe the calculator, or 220bpm-age or whatever you're working with.
At BEST they're averages.
im 25 and I can go over 200bpm at the drop of a hat, any time.
i've seen 216
my LTHR is 187
and I routinely do 20' intervals at 180-187 bpm
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
04-04-12, 02:49 PM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Yea don't believe any calculator. I've hit a max of 204bpm before. The more you ride the stronger your heart will get and the less it will have to work, so your avg and max heart rate will drop.
04-04-12, 02:51 PM
#4
It's been said here a billion times, that formula and calculators are bunk. Everyone is completely different. Everyone.
5 people the same fitness level, height, age, weight as you will have 5 totally different MHRs. If you are serious about exercising please do this and forget about the formulas. It will help you in all fitness activities, not just cycling.
Also, google the following and you'll get more than you can ever want to read-------> "site:bikeforums.net max heart rates"
5 people the same fitness level, height, age, weight as you will have 5 totally different MHRs. If you are serious about exercising please do this and forget about the formulas. It will help you in all fitness activities, not just cycling.
Also, google the following and you'll get more than you can ever want to read-------> "site:bikeforums.net max heart rates"
04-04-12, 02:53 PM
#5
soon to be gsteinc...
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Nayr497's BFF
Posts: 8,564
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I will be 40 in August and my max is 206.
Resting is 40 and I can ride in TMonk's average range.
You need to map out [U]your[U] zones and put them on your stem so you know where you are.
Resting is 40 and I can ride in TMonk's average range.
You need to map out [U]your[U] zones and put them on your stem so you know where you are.
04-04-12, 02:56 PM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Riverside
Posts: 829
Bikes: Orbea Orca m10, Spec Venge Elite, Felt TK2, Orbea Ordu M30
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
From using my hrm, the max I've hit is 208 and my threshold is 188, resting is about 70. 20 yrs old
Last edited by zitter; 04-04-12 at 04:15 PM.
04-04-12, 02:59 PM
#8
I'll also add that "zones" are undefined, vague hocus pocus. Your fitness or weight loss does not automatically flip a switch to the next level up or down when you reach 70% or whatever. I'm not going to magically start losing weight because my heart rate went from 160 to 159 which put me in a different "zone." Kind of like fitting parameters like LeMond's .883 (come on, the thousandth's place?) or KOPS. Trying to find hard numbers or benchmarks doesn't work. Our bodies operate on curves, not steps.
04-04-12, 03:01 PM
#10
Two-Wheeled Aficionado
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Wichita
Posts: 4,903
Bikes: Santa Cruz Blur TR, Cannondale Quick CX dropbar conversion & others
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
5 Posts
agree that your HR max is not 190. to make your garmin shut up, raise your max to at least 200 for the next ride. maybe 205.
that looks like a fairly solid ride for being out of shape. if you have earlier data, especially on this same route, you can compare.
HR is typically higher when you're out of shape and it will fall more slowly when you rest or decrease intensity. I don't see any weird spikes like when your HR strap is giving bogus readings. Your spikes look like they coincide with climbs.
Do this same ride with some intervals instead of trying to hold 17-20 mph steady. See what your HR looks like when you do six sets of 3 min on / 5 min off.
that looks like a fairly solid ride for being out of shape. if you have earlier data, especially on this same route, you can compare.
HR is typically higher when you're out of shape and it will fall more slowly when you rest or decrease intensity. I don't see any weird spikes like when your HR strap is giving bogus readings. Your spikes look like they coincide with climbs.
Do this same ride with some intervals instead of trying to hold 17-20 mph steady. See what your HR looks like when you do six sets of 3 min on / 5 min off.
04-04-12, 03:08 PM
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,429
Bikes: 2013 orca
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
It's been said here a billion times, that formula and calculators are bunk. Everyone is completely different. Everyone.
5 people the same fitness level, height, age, weight as you will have 5 totally different MHRs. If you are serious about exercising please do this and forget about the formulas. It will help you in all fitness activities, not just cycling.
Also, google the following and you'll get more than you can ever want to read-------> "site:bikeforums.net max heart rates"
5 people the same fitness level, height, age, weight as you will have 5 totally different MHRs. If you are serious about exercising please do this and forget about the formulas. It will help you in all fitness activities, not just cycling.
Also, google the following and you'll get more than you can ever want to read-------> "site:bikeforums.net max heart rates"
lol, I know you can exceed your max, I just didn't know if going so far over was doing any serious harm.
I'll also add that "zones" are undefined, vague hocus pocus. Your fitness or weight loss does not automatically flip a switch to the next level up or down when you reach 70% or whatever. I'm not going to magically start losing weight because my heart rate went from 160 to 159 which put me in a different "zone." Kind of like fitting parameters like LeMond's .883 (come on, the thousandth's place?) or KOPS. Trying to find hard numbers or benchmarks doesn't work. Our bodies operate on curves, not steps.
04-04-12, 03:09 PM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 684
Bikes: Elephant custom road bike, 08 Redline D440, Motobecane Fantom cross Uno.
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Yes, your max is not 190. Your max is your max, so if it goes over, that wasn't your max. That 220-age and whatever formulas are out there are horse-****.
04-04-12, 03:10 PM
#13
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,429
Bikes: 2013 orca
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
agree that your HR max is not 190. to make your garmin shut up, raise your max to at least 200 for the next ride. maybe 205.
that looks like a fairly solid ride for being out of shape. if you have earlier data, especially on this same route, you can compare.
HR is typically higher when you're out of shape and it will fall more slowly when you rest or decrease intensity. I don't see any weird spikes like when your HR strap is giving bogus readings. Your spikes look like they coincide with climbs.
Do this same ride with some intervals instead of trying to hold 17-20 mph steady. See what your HR looks like when you do six sets of 3 min on / 5 min off.
that looks like a fairly solid ride for being out of shape. if you have earlier data, especially on this same route, you can compare.
HR is typically higher when you're out of shape and it will fall more slowly when you rest or decrease intensity. I don't see any weird spikes like when your HR strap is giving bogus readings. Your spikes look like they coincide with climbs.
Do this same ride with some intervals instead of trying to hold 17-20 mph steady. See what your HR looks like when you do six sets of 3 min on / 5 min off.
04-04-12, 03:15 PM
#15
Type 1 Racer
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Davis, CA
Posts: 2,579
Bikes: A dozen or so.
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
04-04-12, 03:16 PM
#16
Two-Wheeled Aficionado
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Wichita
Posts: 4,903
Bikes: Santa Cruz Blur TR, Cannondale Quick CX dropbar conversion & others
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
5 Posts
I don't have a garmin but I helped my dad set his up, and I use HR monitoring with my computer (sigma). If you have your HR max set too low on a garmin it's annoying as hell.
You said you did some jogging. I'm guessing you went on jogs that were less than 90 min (this ride, approx.) and were higher than your average HR on this ride and sustained HR up there with your cycling peaks.
Raise to HR max 200 - 205. Keep riding.
You said you did some jogging. I'm guessing you went on jogs that were less than 90 min (this ride, approx.) and were higher than your average HR on this ride and sustained HR up there with your cycling peaks.
Raise to HR max 200 - 205. Keep riding.
04-04-12, 03:20 PM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 684
Bikes: Elephant custom road bike, 08 Redline D440, Motobecane Fantom cross Uno.
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Try this:
Warm-up
Ride steady and easy in the warm-up with heart rates at less than 75 percent of maximum for 30 minutes. Near the end of the warm-up, perform one 5-minute (1 x 5 min) effort at 95 percent of what you estimate to be your time trial heart rate. Then perform active recovery-rolling at cadences between 70-85 rpm at < 75 % of maximum heart rate (MHR)-for 5 minutes. (A discussion of MHR follows in the next section.) Next, perform three 1-minute (3 x 1 min) high-cadence (> 100 rpm) efforts in the easiest gear. Perform active recovery for 1 minute between the 1-minute intervals. After the three 1-minute efforts are complete, perform active recovery for 4 minutes.
The field-test
Mark the interval. Starting at 80 rpm, increase the cadence by 2 or 3 rpm or increase your gearing by one gear every 2 minutes. When you cannot hold your cadence for the 2 minutes, perform an all-out sprint for 30 seconds. Look at your heart rate monitor at this point; the value should be a good estimate of your maximum heart rate.
Robert Panzera. Cycling Fast (p. 79). Kindle Edition.
Warm-up
Ride steady and easy in the warm-up with heart rates at less than 75 percent of maximum for 30 minutes. Near the end of the warm-up, perform one 5-minute (1 x 5 min) effort at 95 percent of what you estimate to be your time trial heart rate. Then perform active recovery-rolling at cadences between 70-85 rpm at < 75 % of maximum heart rate (MHR)-for 5 minutes. (A discussion of MHR follows in the next section.) Next, perform three 1-minute (3 x 1 min) high-cadence (> 100 rpm) efforts in the easiest gear. Perform active recovery for 1 minute between the 1-minute intervals. After the three 1-minute efforts are complete, perform active recovery for 4 minutes.
The field-test
Mark the interval. Starting at 80 rpm, increase the cadence by 2 or 3 rpm or increase your gearing by one gear every 2 minutes. When you cannot hold your cadence for the 2 minutes, perform an all-out sprint for 30 seconds. Look at your heart rate monitor at this point; the value should be a good estimate of your maximum heart rate.
Robert Panzera. Cycling Fast (p. 79). Kindle Edition.
04-04-12, 03:26 PM
#18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,429
Bikes: 2013 orca
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I don't have a garmin but I helped my dad set his up, and I use HR monitoring with my computer (sigma). If you have your HR max set too low on a garmin it's annoying as hell.
You said you did some jogging. I'm guessing you went on jogs that were less than 90 min (this ride, approx.) and were higher than your average HR on this ride and sustained HR up there with your cycling peaks.
Raise to HR max 200 - 205. Keep riding.
You said you did some jogging. I'm guessing you went on jogs that were less than 90 min (this ride, approx.) and were higher than your average HR on this ride and sustained HR up there with your cycling peaks.
Raise to HR max 200 - 205. Keep riding.
Try this:
Warm-up
Ride steady and easy in the warm-up with heart rates at less than 75 percent of maximum for 30 minutes. Near the end of the warm-up, perform one 5-minute (1 x 5 min) effort at 95 percent of what you estimate to be your time trial heart rate. Then perform active recovery-rolling at cadences between 70-85 rpm at < 75 % of maximum heart rate (MHR)-for 5 minutes. (A discussion of MHR follows in the next section.) Next, perform three 1-minute (3 x 1 min) high-cadence (> 100 rpm) efforts in the easiest gear. Perform active recovery for 1 minute between the 1-minute intervals. After the three 1-minute efforts are complete, perform active recovery for 4 minutes.
The field-test
Mark the interval. Starting at 80 rpm, increase the cadence by 2 or 3 rpm or increase your gearing by one gear every 2 minutes. When you cannot hold your cadence for the 2 minutes, perform an all-out sprint for 30 seconds. Look at your heart rate monitor at this point; the value should be a good estimate of your maximum heart rate.
Robert Panzera. Cycling Fast (p. 79). Kindle Edition.
Warm-up
Ride steady and easy in the warm-up with heart rates at less than 75 percent of maximum for 30 minutes. Near the end of the warm-up, perform one 5-minute (1 x 5 min) effort at 95 percent of what you estimate to be your time trial heart rate. Then perform active recovery-rolling at cadences between 70-85 rpm at < 75 % of maximum heart rate (MHR)-for 5 minutes. (A discussion of MHR follows in the next section.) Next, perform three 1-minute (3 x 1 min) high-cadence (> 100 rpm) efforts in the easiest gear. Perform active recovery for 1 minute between the 1-minute intervals. After the three 1-minute efforts are complete, perform active recovery for 4 minutes.
The field-test
Mark the interval. Starting at 80 rpm, increase the cadence by 2 or 3 rpm or increase your gearing by one gear every 2 minutes. When you cannot hold your cadence for the 2 minutes, perform an all-out sprint for 30 seconds. Look at your heart rate monitor at this point; the value should be a good estimate of your maximum heart rate.
Robert Panzera. Cycling Fast (p. 79). Kindle Edition.
its a lot to remember. But I'll do it.
04-04-12, 03:26 PM
#19
Scarlet Knight
If you are concerned, go to a cardiologist and ask to do a treadmill stress test. Say you want to complete the protocol. (NOT a "modified Burke"). They will figure out a few things, 1) do you have exercise induced ischemia, 2) what your physiologic Max HR is OR 3) that you can't take the pain and bailed out before you hit your Max.
And it will be pain. You will taste blood, want to puke (and possibly will). You will fall on the treadmill (but someone will be there to catch you).
Your true Max HR is the same regardless of sport, but your ability to get close to it will differ from sport to sport.
And it will be pain. You will taste blood, want to puke (and possibly will). You will fall on the treadmill (but someone will be there to catch you).
Your true Max HR is the same regardless of sport, but your ability to get close to it will differ from sport to sport.
04-04-12, 03:28 PM
#20
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,429
Bikes: 2013 orca
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
If you are concerned, go to a cardiologist and ask to do a treadmill stress test. Say you want to complete the protocol. (NOT a "modified Burke"). They will figure out a few things, 1) do you have exercise induced ischemia, 2) what your physiologic Max HR is OR 3) that you can't take the pain and bailed out before you hit your Max.
And it will be pain. You will taste blood, want to puke (and possibly will). You will fall on the treadmill (but someone will be there to catch you).
Your true Max HR is the same regardless of sport, but your ability to get close to it will differ from sport to sport.
And it will be pain. You will taste blood, want to puke (and possibly will). You will fall on the treadmill (but someone will be there to catch you).
Your true Max HR is the same regardless of sport, but your ability to get close to it will differ from sport to sport.
04-04-12, 03:31 PM
#21
Scarlet Knight
by the way, the young cardiologists I know LOVE to do this with people. (they did mine for free, but I'm a MD too) It is really fun watching somebody suffer by their own choice.
04-04-12, 03:37 PM
#22
Vandalized since 2002
So I've been reading up on what my heart rate should be and zone training etc., ...
I like to push it when I'm riding and get the most out of it rather than ambling around. I don't see any other way to get faster if I'm in zone 4...it was sooooo slooowwww. it seemed like I was in zone 5 a lot. Keep in mind, it was very windy so I had to push harder to maintain 17-20mph
https://connect.garmin.com/activity/164745257
I like to push it when I'm riding and get the most out of it rather than ambling around. I don't see any other way to get faster if I'm in zone 4...it was sooooo slooowwww. it seemed like I was in zone 5 a lot. Keep in mind, it was very windy so I had to push harder to maintain 17-20mph
https://connect.garmin.com/activity/164745257
Under normal day-to-day conditions our heart doesn't have to pump a lot of blood carrying oxygen to our muscles and carbon dioxide and other wastes away from our muscles. Consequently the cyclist in training (endurance athlete) doesn't have a large capillary network to carry that blood to and from their muscles. By working out at lower heart rates this encourages that blood network to get built so that the cyclist can then have a more efficient network to carry fuel to the muscles and wastes away, letting them go harder longer before reaching that anaerobic threshold.
04-04-12, 03:41 PM
#23
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,429
Bikes: 2013 orca
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I don't know what you're reading or what it suggests for training but I have seen some stuff about building up the body's ability to circulate the blood before trying to get faster. The basic premise is this:
Under normal day-to-day conditions our heart doesn't have to pump a lot of blood carrying oxygen to our muscles and carbon dioxide and other wastes away from our muscles. Consequently the cyclist in training (endurance athlete) doesn't have a large capillary network to carry that blood to and from their muscles. By working out at lower heart rates this encourages that blood network to get built so that the cyclist can then have a more efficient network to carry fuel to the muscles and wastes away, letting them go harder longer before reaching that anaerobic threshold.
Under normal day-to-day conditions our heart doesn't have to pump a lot of blood carrying oxygen to our muscles and carbon dioxide and other wastes away from our muscles. Consequently the cyclist in training (endurance athlete) doesn't have a large capillary network to carry that blood to and from their muscles. By working out at lower heart rates this encourages that blood network to get built so that the cyclist can then have a more efficient network to carry fuel to the muscles and wastes away, letting them go harder longer before reaching that anaerobic threshold.
04-04-12, 03:50 PM
#24
Vandalized since 2002
Essentially, yes. You'll eventually see that you need to go faster to keep your HR within the range you're aiming for, that means it's working. Also, this doesn't negate any of the strength training you'd normally be doing like hill repeats, intervals, etc. You still have to train fast to go fast but you'll know that when you do go fast the body can take care of the wastes.
04-04-12, 04:49 PM
#25
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,429
Bikes: 2013 orca
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Essentially, yes. You'll eventually see that you need to go faster to keep your HR within the range you're aiming for, that means it's working. Also, this doesn't negate any of the strength training you'd normally be doing like hill repeats, intervals, etc. You still have to train fast to go fast but you'll know that when you do go fast the body can take care of the wastes.
