CigTech

Hi All,

I have a 33.6 mile (one way Commute) ride to work. I want to get there in around 1 hour. I know thats a lot of battery. But I think I got it worked out. Let me know if I'm way off where.

I'm looking at the Cyclone 250w 24v system. With a 26 mph speed it could get me there just over 1 hour. I don't have many hills so don't need much power to over come them. I have tlaked to some people that have e-biks and have worked out a spred sheet for range with given speed, watts, Whr and voltage. If any one want a copy of the sheet just let me know. Here is a screen shot of the sheet. If it's way off let me know and I'll fix it.

So I'm thinking the Cyclone 250watt kit with 20Ahr Ping battery. And later adding an other 20Ahr battery. This way I can make it there and back with out recharging at work.
With just 20Ahr battery I can run it at 70% and make it there and back. But if the sheet is right with 40 Ahr I can make it there and back at 100% speed.

To let you know I build cars all night long (480 of them) in a 8 hour shift. I commuting it right now but am way to tired at the end of the night to ride home fast. Thats way I'm looking at building a E-Bike.

So what do you guys think?

cerewa

The kit I bought (on ebay) is closer to meeting your 1 hour mark. I don't know the exact speed but it's around 30mph and the range is better too (given that with twice the voltage and the same number of amp hours I am carrying twice as many watt hours of battery). (48v20ah, on a 750watt motor from sun-thing28 on ebay). This thing is fast, powerful, and long-range.

CigTech

what kit is that? and whats rang do you get?

2manybikes

To travel 33.6 miles in one hour you need to travel a lot faster, maybe almost 40mph when the terrain permits.

You need a real life average of 33.6. All the time slowing for intersections, and stopping brings your average way, way, down. If you are traveling at 26mph, if there are stop signs and intersections your average would possibly be more like 20 mph.

I'm just guessing, I could be way off, I don't know the route. It could even be worse, if there are traffic lights. When I ride at 16-18 mph my average is more like 10mph, on a route with lots of intersections, and two lights.

CigTech

I'm on back roads out side the city for 75% of the ride. right now I make it there in 96.5 minutes avg with a road bike.

CigTech

OK, found the kit I need. 48V with 450 watt motor mid drive system. It has a top speed of 40 mph. The Excel sheet shows 80% speed (32 mph) with a range of 80 miles with a 15 AHr battery. That makes the ride time of 63 minutes. I like it. And the kit is only $316.80

SiXiam

80 miles seems a very high number.
More important though is that a 450 watt motor @ 48 volts can only draw a maximum 9.375 amps (in a perfect world).
In the real world that number would be even less, because the motor would overheat.

If you need high speed in a consistent basis then you should probably go for the PapaMotor 48 volt 1000 watt motor.

15rms

I don't believe 15 amps even with 48 volts will take you 80 miles. More like 25 and that is with some peddling. I have put several miles on a Cyclone 500 watt powered recumbent. Wide open without peddling it held around 22 mph. I weighed 220 at the time. All of your hypothedicals are very optimistic. You might try the cyclone 500 with 30 amps and plan on charging at work. That way you could cruize over 20 and not have to peddle.

SiXiam

Yes, PapaMotor estimates a 26 mile top range using a 48v 15ah Ping battery @ 32mph, using their 48v 1000 watt motor.
The 500 watt motor lowers the speed down to around 25mph.
Personally I'd call these estimates high. So I'd give a 30mph max and maybe 22 mile max range (without peddling and a 180lb male).

For around 70 miles without any peddling you would need two 48volt 20ah batteries.
Given all the effort it sounds like you would be better off buying a motorcycle!

CigTech

I'm 170 lbs and will peddel to get started at stops to like 15mph, I have like two small hills (more like a small rise in the road).

I did make a typo about the 15 AHr being 80 miles. It should have been 30 AHr with 80 miles with peddling. I messed up looking at the 15 Ahr and then the 30 AHr and got the numbers mixed up. What I'm looking at to start with is the 15 AHr battery and latter adding 15 more. with the 15 AHr I'll charge it at work and then ride home. the 15 Ahr battery with a input of 150 watts from me should give me 64 miles range.

cerewa

kit is this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/48V-1000W-El...#ht_3797wt_782

He's selling battery in a separate listing. 48v20ah gets me around 60 miles (with moderate pedaling)

crackerdog

I wish all these dealers would list the mileage as on the flat, at a certain speed, with no pedaling. I can get 2,000 miles on my electric bike if I pedal because a good electric bike can be pedaled across the country with no battery if needed. Speed changes everything also. At 5mph you have almost no wind resistance but at 20 mph you are spending at least half of your power to fight the wind resistance. Then we can talk about hills but without knowing how steep or long a hill is we have no idea what motors can make it up which hills reasonably.
If you really want to go 30 mph on an electric, look for a used recumbent, put a windscreen on it and a mid-drive and ride in comfort at high speed. It makes a huge difference at those speeds, it is what recumbents are really great at.

spirit733t

have you thought about the papa motor kit, they have 48 volt kits that can do max speed of 34 mph, and quite a bit of range.. pose your questions in this thread

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ion-kits/page5

EBikeFL 

Spirit733t and Sixiam are right about the link they've posted having the solution to your 33 mile commute. There's an e-bike user that does 15 miles @ an average 32 mph and uses less than 10 Ah; of course, he has a front fairing which decreases the negative impacts wind resistance causes going at that speed. If you had two 20 Ah Ping batteries and a similar setup, I think you could make your round trip commute without charging.

dumbass 

I wish I could tell you your going to get exactly what you want from that 250w setup. But it's just not going to happen. My real life experience is with a 360w Cyclone setup on a 32 lb. Wallie World bike. Granted at the time I weighed 200 lbs. But I ran a 24v 20ah Thunder Sky pack with it. It ran very well up to about maybe 22mph if I peddled my butt of to help it. On it's own if could handle about 16mph or maybe a little more. Your not going to get anywhere close to 33.6 for a 1 hour ride (assuming you never stop or slow down). The battery pack was good for about 25 to 30 miles if I peddled most of the time. And BTW, I was biking in a forest preserve so wasn't traveling at full speed most of the time.

Sorry for the bad news but you need a lot more the 250w which also means you need more battery too. For max. life out of your pack you don't want to run more then 1c and limit to 50 to 60% of the ah canasity per discharge. You can adjust these #s as you like but expect reduced life from the pack.

As for a ping pack....good pack as long as you don't have any problems. It you feel you can replace a bad cell set on your own that's fine. But if not your better off looking at cells packs that have screw on terminals. Ping packs are duck tape packs that use all 5ah cells. So your 24v 15ah pack will actually be made up from 32 individual cells. If one fails the pack fails. Remember where Ping ships from (China). So now you wait for a new cell or cells to be shipped to you. And you have to soder them in. Same thing if hte BMS fails. e ships you a new one and you install it. Ping is a good guy and has a good pack.........if it doesn't fail or if you can do the repairs.

Think about a bigger motor and at least consider a pack with screwed on terminals.

Bob

CigTech

Well I am looking at a 48v 450 watt system now and maybe the SHORAI Lithium-Iron Powersports battery, 18Ah 12V ( 8 of them). This battery pack will give me 37AHr at 48v. The pack will weight 17 lbs. That way if a cell goes bad then just pull the battery and replace. My bike is 22lbs, and I'm 170lbs. As we all know a 48 volt system can reach speeds of 60mph. But the amps is what makes it get to speed fast. And yes wind or air drag is a big problem. I'm still working on that LOL. Man my head hurts

dumbass 

I'm surely no expert and not looking to argue with you or anyone else about ebikes. But I guess I'm one of those who didn't know 48v could get you to 60mph. Of course the type of setup and motor mean a lot. But I don't see how 48v is going to get 60mph. I would agree with a good setup it will get you 35 to 40mph. I don't know anything about the pack your talking about. But 48v with 37ah is a nice pack. But 17lbs sounds like a lipo pack. Which is fine if that for you. I'm assuming you've ridden a bike at over 35mph before and know what your getting into. Just be sure that frame can handle the stress. Remember normal bikes were not built to go that fast and can fall apart at some really bad moments. Good luck.......Interested to see how it all works out for you.

Bob

dumbass 

Here's something I thought you would benifit from reading from another ebike forum. I've been a member there since '08 and a lot of these guys know how to build a bike. I think you'll see what I've been telling you is not wrong. And you will likely learn a lot and save yourself some cash and time.

Bob

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vie...hp?f=3&t=42195

CigTech

ok the guys on that link are all trying to kill each other. I just want to get to work alive.

LandKurt

I don't think your spreadsheet is very close to reality. It says 125 watts will give you 13 MPH and 250 watts gets you 26 MPH. Unfortunately power and speed don't have a linear relationship like that. The reality is that on a normal bike 13 MPH will require about 170 watts and 26 MPH will take about 900 watts. If you want to go 30 MPH you're talking about 1300 watts or so.

Riding at 30 MPH will burn about 42 Wh/mi. Your 67 mile round trip will require about 2800 Whr which means a 73 AH 48 volt battery would be necessary if you want a 80% discharge.

Pedaling will only drop the requirements by 10 or 20%. It's hard to help with a 1300 watt load. Getting both speed and distance is expensive. This figures are base on an upright riding position. A recumbent would cut the power requirement in half at 30 MPH.

Or you could just go slower. Your 37AH 48V battery might be able to make the round trip at 20 MPH with a little margin of error. Pedaling hard and tucking into a streamline posture might get you closer to 25 MPH.

powell

CigTech
I must agree about "killing each other" in that link to Endless Sphere, very well said.
We all need just economical commuters not STUNT ebikes.
Carrying tons of dangerous LiPOLYMER batteries which Ahs in big percentage are wasted for heating overstressed motors to reach that 60km/h plus is a performance show off.
Seems somebody forgot that Electric bike is all about efficiency not wasting WattsHours of energy for heating saturated motors.
I am OK with them if they are ridden on race track but sadly they are ridden on public streets or even bicycle paths like videos show!!!
It is the matter of time before sombody get killed. And then crackdown will begin.

dumbass 

I think your missing the point I was trying to make by directing you to that thread. IT was to show how far out your thinking is. Your speed requirement is way to high and your motor power is way to low.

First off your trying for a speed of 34+mph on a bike that weighs 22lbs. Likely, light weight steel, alm or what ever. None of which are good for a high speed ebike. Secondly, your loading it down with batteries and third you say you will peddle to 15mph leaving us to assume you think a 250w motor now revised to 450 is going to carry you your bike and all those batteries at the 34+mp without assist from you. Lets remember 34mph is your average speed not your actual speed required to achieve your 1 hour travel requirement. Did you happen to notice the originator of the thread was doing 40mph on a 3600w setup. And likely on a much better suited bike for ebike conversion.

While many here may think some of those commenting on that thread are a little far out there they were saying exactly what I am telling you. Your goals are to high for a safe sane ride. You say those guys are just trying to kill them selves......Yeah, and trying for your speed on a 22lb bike isn't? But hey, it's your money, time and most of all it's your life. So have fun and ride safe as you can while it lasts.


Powell....I must have missed it, where was the bike path in that video (Worlds most dangerous electric bicycle)? And BTW, I don't advicate riding an ebike faster then 25mph. But there is nothing wrong with having extra power available. Power doesn't always mean speed. Few of us drive out cars to their max speed. So why assume because someone builds a powerful ebike their speeding down bike paths? But if they are I personally hope they get their ass nailed for it. A properly designed and ridden powerful setup is not wasting excessive energy to heat. And if it was so what. For many it's all about being green. But for some (me) it's also about having a little fun too. And just so you know when I have my fun I do it on an open highway not on a bike path.

Bob

powell

here is example of video, just search ebikes on youtube , there are many more.
I stand by what I wrote,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...CxLnpckB4&NR=1
to every resonable person he acts like he want to kil himself .
in link to ES the guy is even more crazy even trying to reach what? 80km/h on non-suspension bike?
So CigTech comment is right
As I wrote couple of serious accident WILL result in crackdown

read all thread here AllanG comments and mine.
.https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...has-no-battery!!

CigTech

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=_0LytDZmHf4

Hell this is what I need LOL

SpecialX

If it takes you 1.5 hrs on your bike normally, that's 22 mph avg to get to the 33.6 miles to work.

Let's look at a decent average ebike...
48v 20a ebike will net you about 30mph TOP speed or about a 25 mile avg distance in an hour and that's going full throttle.
(That's 1000w / HR or 1kw/HR) So in about 1.25 hours you can get to work.

That would require at the VERY LEAST at 30Ah battery.

If you wanted to make it there in an hour, you would need to travel at about 40mph...
That's gonna take a lot more then 48v 20a.. You would need a 60v 30a bike to go that speed (Or about 32-34mph avg, because at every mph past 25 or so, you need a lot more power to fight wind resistance.)

So you'd need a 60v 30ah battery to get you there and then you'd have to charge.
60v 30ah battery alone is gonna cost you about $1,500. And the required motor and controller is gonna cost you another $1000.

For a round trip without charging, double that cost.
And that's all BARE MINIMUM.