thehammerdog

I am in the mood to buy some parts or even a new frame for 2013. I have a primary bike, a good quality Bianchi all 105 but need/want a TT/Tri bike . I found several sites that sell knockoffs wheels & frames. What is the scoop, are they crap or a good deal? Is there any way to know? My wife says I am stupid and should fear that the stuff will explode while riding. I just want to know if anyone has purchased and or used the stuff.

Thanks

Training.Wheels

Nagrom has one that he's currently selling, and from what I've been reading, chinese knockoffs are no joke; you're paying for the quality without the brand.

Here's the pedalroom for his bike:
https://www.pedalroom.com/bike/flx-fr-105-for-sale-7183

ahsposo 

They're all Chinese knockoffs under the skin.

ultraman6970

Interesting, a lot of people building tt bikes as road bikes.

As for the knock off frames... if you are lucky the thing will last forever, as with pretty much all the stuff.

Drag

Are you certain your Bianchi wasnt made in China?

coasting 

knockoff sugests they are fakes of originals. Since most bikes are made there, what are the originals they are faking?

Talk about relative quality of products made by various brands. That's a different issue.

coasting 

bianchis are made by a taiwanese company which is going to go public next year.

danvuquoc

Since you're curious, I'll post up a short review of mine.

I bought a Miracle Trade MT053 in 52cm from someone named Jack Chen. This particular frame is a knockoff of the Scott Foil. I have a bit over 2000 miles on it now. Prior to this I was riding on a Look frame that I've now sold to a good friend.

Pre-Purchase Communications w/ Miracle Trade:
Excellent, he usually responded the same night via e-mail for any questions I had before the purchase. He provided me with geometry charts for every size and my 52cm geo ended up matching up perfectly. He was very eager to sell me a frame, and seemed like a nice guy all around.

Purchase:
Was around a little over $600 shipped to my door, I paid no customs, and it arrived 11 days after I ordered it.

Build up:
Buildup went as expected, it looked like an exceptionally solid build, and the ride is great, stiff but not ridiculous, and it looks great. There are a couple issues with this frame particularly that could be improved on. #1 The internal cable routing for the FD/RD don't cross over, which makes routing slightly tougher. #2 The RD cable exit is right next to where the skewer sits, thankfully I have some very minimalist KCNC skewers and this isn't an issue, but your standard skewer that comes with a wheelset will not work. #3 Only round seatrails will work with the seatpost clamp as it is side-mounting.

Issue #1:
Soon after I built it up, out of the sprints I noticed something odd, the seat was slightly lower. Eventually it turns out, the sprinting motion caused the seat to pull up with inertia and dislodge the seatpost wedge mechanism. I searched around some people had this issue, others didn't. I contacted Jack and he asked me to send the frame back to take a look at it. They sent me a new frame with a revised seatpost clamp that had part of the retaining mechanism carbon/metal epoxied into the frame, worked great. He paid for shipping to and from.

Issue #2:
Maybe my FD was out of adjustment or maybe my chain wasn't lubed enough, in the middle of a climb, under power, I dropped into the small ring and the chain came back around and got tangled into the FD. 2 of the 3 rivets for the fd braze-on stripped right off. They used aluminum rivets, not sure if thats a quality issue, I replaced them with a $12 rivet gun and some steel 1/8" rivets. Good as new now.

Post-purchase Communication:
Took a little spill a while ago, wanted to get some extra derailleur hangers, talked to Jack -- he didn't mind going through the trouble of sending me some more, $20 later I had 4 of them in my mailbox.

RoadHolland

Not to get on a soapbox, but why would you support stolen intelectual property?

tagaproject6

...and here we go :

danvuquoc

Didn't take long did it ?

canam73

I'll give you a hint:

"Purchase:
Was around a little over $600 shipped to my door"

wphamilton

I'd be inclined to try an imitation carbon fiber frame, but I'd hesitate on the wheels without a lot of research. I doubt that there's much risk in the frame, yet it just seems to me that there's a lot more engineering going into wheels, a lot more that goes wrong, and particularly when they're trying to design them to be as light as possible, inexpensively, with other qualities secondary.

But then, I don't really want one so maybe that's your answer. If you're serious about it, a known quality brand name is likely the best value in the long run.

Andy Somnifac 

Have I? No. Would I? Sure. I'm good on road and TT bikes, but a cx frame would be nice.

Hiro11

I have the exact same frame, also purchased from Jack Chen. I reviewed it over on Velobuild.

The transaction was simple and the communication was responsive. I paid $500 +$90 shipping (54, matte, 3K) which included two spare headsets, the proprietary seatpost, alloy seatpost clamp mechanism and a spare RD hanger.

I've had zero problems with the frame with over 2K miles on it. No issues with seatpost slippage since the day I first tightened it. It built up very easily. Internal cabling is smooth, headset dropped right in, BB shell was flush. The matte finish and 3K wrap are also easily as good as anything in a bike shop. I get comments on the look of frame all the time, everyone wants to know what it is.

I find the bike to be stiff as hell and ride like a true race bike. It's not a fondo bike at all. Long-ish flat top tube, short chainstays, very short headtube, a tiny bit of toe overlap (SPD-SL pedals).

Overall, I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I went this route as an experiment, figuring I could afford to simply write the frame off and start over if it didn't work out. Turns out, the frame suits my needs perfectly. I'd recommend Miracle Trade in particular. I bought a set of carbon bars from them as well for $45 and they've also been great.

One thing to keep in mind is that if you plan on building up one of these frames with new components you buy at retail prices, you might not actually save much money vs just buying a complete bike from a shop. Do the calculation carefully as costs add up quickly at retail prices (saddle, bar tape, cables, tires etc). Ideally, buy one of these frames a replacement frame and move the parts over from your current bike. These frames save you huge bucks as replacements.

Also, you need to know what you want when it comes to these frames, there's no chance of a fit or a test ride. Study the geometry charts carefully before buying, you're not going to want to ship it back.

Lastly, some bike shops will not build up these frames. Also, asking a shop to do the build will obviously add significantly to the cost and decrease the return from going this route. Personally, I'd only really recommend a Chinese direct frame to someone who feels comfortable doing the build themselves, including cutting the steerer tube.

Regarding "stolen intellectual property", side-by-side the frame is fairly different from a real Foil. The real one has a slightly slanting top tube, different geometry and a totally different (and inferior) seatpost clamp mechanism. If it still bothers you, there are plenty (dozens) of open mold frames to choose from. I do get your point when it comes to Chinarellos and brand name painting/decals. Mine is matte, no decals.

Commodus

I don't see any value in spending hundreds of dollars on an unknown quantity.

Nagrom_ 

I purchased mine through eBay simply to add a middle man. Took 9 days to get to my door, $540 & free shipping. Even purchased 2 wheelsets from the same seller. absolutely no issues with china carbon.

I think its a gleaming example of "don't knock it 'til you try it."

catonec 

ive been riding chinese knockoff carbon handlebars for the past 3 seasons. no complaints.

Hiro11

The one thing that cracks me up is seeing various resellers paint these frames and sell them for $2K.

tagaproject6

Which ones?

Looigi

Though many are, you can find inexpensive Chinese frames that aren't knockoffs. Check this thread with nearly 3000 posts: https://forums.roadbikereview.com/bik...-a-272806.html

Hiro11

A few examples I can think of: the Ritte Bosberg is a Pedal Force CG1 with a sweet paint job for roughly three times the price. An Onix Black RH is a $350 Hong Fu FM001 being sold for $2K. The Trigon RCQ-29 is sold all over the place (direct, Fondreist, Neuvation) at prices ranging from $3K to $800 depending on the stickers. The Masi Evoluzione is a painted FM015. Etc.

Commodus

How do you know they're the same?

Hiro11

The Ritte, Onix and Trigon because I've seen various forum postings from the manufacturers themselves admitting as much. You can probably find them with a quick search. The Masi is unconfirmed to me but all of their bikes are made in China and it's a dead ringer.

rogerstg

There is no intellectual property issue when buying these unbranded or factory direct frames.