iptem3000

I just picked up this Claud Butler Franken and I'm just wondering if anyone here could help me ID it. It came with some campy bits and some old Dura Ace (two sets of old Dura Ace - one high flange and a set of low flange). It has a 3ttt stem and Cinelli bars. The headset, BB, rear derailleur, seat post, brake levers and crank are all Campy. I think that is what it came with originally. The rear derailleur in a Nuovo Record and it says pat. 73 on it so I'm wonding if that places this bike around then. It has Campy dropouts but it has been repainted with the original decals left intact. Any ideas on what it could be?

unworthy1

any serial number?
It has Prugnat lugs and one of the "cut-down" Vagner type crowns...but is that seat cluster fastback? Fillet brazed?
Show a pic of that...
Might be a later Holdsworthy CB, but might even be a Falcon-era frame...

iptem3000

Narhay

I see you got that one from the Vancouver Craigslist.

iptem3000

I did. Well worth the drive. All Dura Ace and Campy and the seller didn't mention that at all in the ad. That said, its pretty rough but it has lots of nice parts and I think a decent frame under it all.

Narhay

Yes, I emailed and got a response the next morning when I couldn't have headed out. At least one of us got it. Good luck with the restore/tear down.

photogravity

A Claud Butler with tri clips? An interesting setup, for sure. That is quite a nice score and I look forward to seeing it cleaned up.

unworthy1

hmmm. I'm a bit stumped: the lugs and lack of braze-ons points to an early (like '70s era) frame, but something about the semi-fastback stay-tops and how narrow the stays are placed looks later...wonder if it's been repaired.
Serial number would be a big help for somebody who knows the CB format.

dbakl

Looks nice, I know nothing...

iptem3000

I will try to take a better look for the serial number when I get a chance. It looks like it was hand pinted with a thick layer of paint so it might need some stripping before I can get at it.

Unworthy1- if it were repaired do you think the stays would be replaced all together?

Bianchigirll 

We have been trying to tell you that for years!!


Interesting looking bike. Ditch those geek bars, clean her up and tell s how she rides.

unworthy1

I was just clutching on that: I doubt there would be many crashed frames where both seat stays required replacement, but the "look" of those doesn't jibe with the rest of the frame (to my eye). They ARE single-taper stays, and the brake bridge is for nutted brakes, plus the early DA calipers are more "medium" than short-reach.
It's still a mystery to me.

iptem3000

https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalog...utler-76/3.JPG

Could it be a Colstar?

iptem3000

27.2 seat post which would make it Butted 531 right?

unworthy1

^Yes, usually...at the least the 3 main tubes would be (or at the very least the seat tube).
I gather that the Colstar was usually the same as the Holdsworth Mistral (for many years) yet this frame looks not like any Mistral I've seen.

iptem3000

https://homepage.ntlworld.com/nkilgar.../Cata42_43.jpg

This page here says it's the same as a Holdsworth Special which seems right. I'm going to do some work on it tomorrow and I will take some better daytime pictures. Hopefully I will be able to find the serial number.

unworthy1

you'll notice that that description of the Colstar (frameset alone) is with "bottle cage bosses, cable guides and gear-stops/tunnels" for that year...none of which your frame has.
The other frameset (akin to the Holdsworth Italia) that has Campy DOs also has full braze-ons.

iptem3000

This is what it looks like from the side without the tri bars

bobbycorno

Much mo' bettah. And I posolutely LOVE those Prugnat 62 bis lugs!

SP
OC, OR

unworthy1

yes that's a good drive-side shot...and it DOES have some braze-ons on the chain stay, and those cable/housing guides are more-or-less what I'd expect to see on an early ('70s) British frame...

Edit: did some hunting for some Claud Butler pix and found this one with those same Prugnat lugs, but other differences: note the stay tops, the eyelets on the DOs, the cable guides on the TT, the flat Vagner crown (and the lamp bracket for UK use), pump pegs...plus this is a plain-gauge 531 tubed frame.
Still, something to compare with:

https://www.lfgss.com/thread30559.html