The vintage Italian Mystique, fact or B.S.?
11-08-13, 09:31 PM
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The vintage Italian Mystique, fact or B.S.?
I am fortunate to ride 4 vintage American customs, a LeMond Zurich of unknown origin and a Dave Scott Master Ironman from Japan. The Old Duffers group I ride with gives me unending grief for never having had the vintage "Italian Experience". They often pull out their Nalgos, Pinos, and even a Rosa and tell me that I am missing something in cycling as I have never invested the time on a Italian to develop the necessary distinctions in frame/ride to appreciate the Italian Experience. I can not believe that any "Italian Masterpiece" could bring me more pleasure than my Bill Davidson, or be materially superior to my mass produced 853 Zurich or maybe even the Ironman.
Anyway I am going to list for trade my much too big 60.5x60 Fillet brazed True Temper s3 frame custom ( I am a 57-58cm) for trade and am wondering should I fold to the pressure and ask for only Italian trades? Surely you agree with me that that is foolish!
Anyway I am going to list for trade my much too big 60.5x60 Fillet brazed True Temper s3 frame custom ( I am a 57-58cm) for trade and am wondering should I fold to the pressure and ask for only Italian trades? Surely you agree with me that that is foolish!
11-08-13, 09:39 PM
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Forget Italian bikes! They are overrated! If you really want to have some real C&V fun, try a French bike at least once in your life!!.....
11-08-13, 09:40 PM
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That's a very good question. I have some nice French bikes. Wondering if the more expensive Italians would be a better ride.
11-08-13, 09:59 PM
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Frankly, my best riding bike is Italian (86 Alan Record Carbonio). It feels like it's ready to race with its very stable and precise handling even in the tightest, fastest conditions I can subject it too. With my Alan, I can understand why some liken them to "thoroughbreds". My French race bikes are great in a different way. Much more relaxed feel to them. Very stable when motoring fast on long straight routes. I suspect your present bikes fall somewhere in between......
11-08-13, 10:10 PM
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What??? Only 2 wheels?
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My best riding bike is Italian style made in the USA, the Masi. The Bianchi is no slouch either. Nor the Centurion or the Raleigh. But the Masi wins.
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11-08-13, 10:19 PM
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Really can't make a comparison between bikes from different eras and declare a "winner".
11-08-13, 10:29 PM
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I am fortunate to ride 4 vintage American customs, a LeMond Zurich of unknown origin and a Dave Scott Master Ironman from Japan. The Old Duffers group I ride with gives me unending grief for never having had the vintage "Italian Experience". They often pull out their Nalgos, Pinos, and even a Rosa and tell me that I am missing something in cycling as I have never invested the time on a Italian to develop the necessary distinctions in frame/ride to appreciate the Italian Experience. I can not believe that any "Italian Masterpiece" could bring me more pleasure than my Bill Davidson, or be materially superior to my mass produced 853 Zurich or maybe even the Ironman.
Anyway I am going to list for trade my much too big 60.5x60 Fillet brazed True Temper s3 frame custom ( I am a 57-58cm) for trade and am wondering should I fold to the pressure and ask for only Italian trades? Surely you agree with me that that is foolish!
Anyway I am going to list for trade my much too big 60.5x60 Fillet brazed True Temper s3 frame custom ( I am a 57-58cm) for trade and am wondering should I fold to the pressure and ask for only Italian trades? Surely you agree with me that that is foolish!
Put it in the correct thread though and someone will take a look.
Edit: Put it in the frame trade thread or buy a membership and sell it.
Last edited by gomango; 11-09-13 at 05:37 AM.
11-08-13, 10:42 PM
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I think it might be a little of both. But I do like my Italian bikes!
11-08-13, 11:17 PM
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...I 
these "which is the best bike?" threads.
these "which is the best bike?" threads.
11-09-13, 12:00 AM
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Your S3 frame is too big for me (unfortunately), but you should treat yourself to my '89 Pinarello Treviso (with Campy 10s)! 
-Mark in St. Louis
-Mark in St. Louis
Last edited by buldogge; 11-09-13 at 12:04 AM.
11-09-13, 04:57 AM
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Started out with an Italvega but the one I always wanted but didn't quite get around to was a Pinarello.
The Italvega wasn't as nice as this:
The Italvega wasn't as nice as this:
Last edited by Zinger; 11-09-13 at 07:14 AM.
11-09-13, 05:29 AM
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All my bikes are Italian. I personally don't think there is any mystique, but that's just me.
What's a Nalgo?
What's a Nalgo?
11-09-13, 05:48 AM
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^^You know, a Conie.
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11-09-13, 06:09 AM
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Take any nice frame, put awesome stickers on it and give it an awesome, complicated name and it will ride better - bonus points if it's somewhat difficult to pronounce. French name/stickers, or Italian, it doesn't really matter. To me any "mystique" is inferred by the rider. I'm certainly guilty of it, but mystique is kind of what vintage bikes are all about, right? That's one answer. OR, and I think it's the answer you're looking for...
Yes. There is something special and magical about old Italian bikes that nothing else compares to. The makers had a secret pact never to pass on their secret brazing recipe to others, on pain of death. It's rumored that Falerio Masi broke the pact, which is why Masi bikes look the way they do today. You can only discover this magic for yourself by finding a thoroughbred Italian racing machine from the 60's or 70's and buying it for yourself as an early Christmas present! Have fun.
Yes. There is something special and magical about old Italian bikes that nothing else compares to. The makers had a secret pact never to pass on their secret brazing recipe to others, on pain of death. It's rumored that Falerio Masi broke the pact, which is why Masi bikes look the way they do today. You can only discover this magic for yourself by finding a thoroughbred Italian racing machine from the 60's or 70's and buying it for yourself as an early Christmas present! Have fun.
11-09-13, 06:46 AM
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11-09-13, 07:00 AM
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Buy a bike that fits well and compliments your preferences - nationality doesn't matter (unless it's French). I don't think there's a sameness to Italian bikes in terms of ride - De Rosas don't ride like Colnagos.
11-09-13, 07:07 AM
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Where a bike is made has little to do with actual or ride quality. Both are a product of quality materials, coupled with caring and knowledgeable craftsmanship. The best riding bicycle that I hav owne, built and ridden is a Canadian made Cyclops. I have compared that bike's construction and ride quality to, literally, hundreds of others and found it to be the best riding bicycle I have run across to date.
For quality of construction, I would have to give my vote to Pinarello or even Trek.
If appearance is the ruler with which one wishes to measure, then the Italian do have a great deal to offer, unless, of course, one considers such Velo wonders as Hetchins, Alex Singer and Rene Herst, just to mention a couple of non-Italian frame builders who make, truly, fine bicycles.
So, the answer to your question is, decidely - BS.
Just an old guy's opinion, of course.
For quality of construction, I would have to give my vote to Pinarello or even Trek.
If appearance is the ruler with which one wishes to measure, then the Italian do have a great deal to offer, unless, of course, one considers such Velo wonders as Hetchins, Alex Singer and Rene Herst, just to mention a couple of non-Italian frame builders who make, truly, fine bicycles.
So, the answer to your question is, decidely - BS.
Just an old guy's opinion, of course.
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11-09-13, 07:11 AM
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A friend has a Gios that he rides quite often with us.
Certainly doesn't handle like my Colnago.
That much is certain.
11-09-13, 07:16 AM
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I wasn't impressed much with my Cyclops - ride or appearance. It had cool decals. All of which is to say this stuff is totally subjective and based on preferences (including some mythology) more than fact. The nicest riding production road bike I've been on is my Kellogg Merlin...for whatever reason, it just does it for me. It's a more industrial aesthetic, but I think the workmanship of it's puddle welds is more impressive than most lugged construction. I've never ridden a Lemond I didn't like - so foolish for selling my Poprad.
I've never ridden a Gios...or a Tomassini. I must rectify that someday!
I've never ridden a Gios...or a Tomassini. I must rectify that someday!