Aushiker

This is a podcast from ABC 774 in Melbourne ...

Andrew

02Giant 

I believe the #1 reason is people feel like they will be slowed, delayed, or inconvenienced if they happen to get caught behind a cyclist. I see so many who will do anything to pull out in front of, pass and drop in on anyone or anything.

I wasn't able to listen to your link, the computer I am on has no sound.

Chris516

It isn't that. It is a sense of 'entitlement'. There is a two-lane road just outside the town I live in, with a 30mph speed limit. Even if I am going 25-30mph, motorists' will NOT ONLY still try to pass me, by NOT FULLY crossing over the double-yellow line. But if it is another motorist, and who happens to be going slower than even 20mph on that road. Other motorists' will slow down and not cross the double-yellow line.

If I am a local four-lane road with a 40mph speed limit, apart from NOT going over the double-yellow line. They will NOT get completely in the passing lane to pass me.

So, It is more than a motorist feeling as if they are being slowed, delayed, or inconvenienced. Motorists' feel that cyclists' are not entitled to ride on the road, regardless of what the law says.

NoviceJohn

IMHO, before I took up cycling, I disliked cyclists who ride on roads with no bike lanes. When I get stuck behind one (because I wasn't able to pass), I get frustrated just like the next driver. Cyclists running stop signs wasn't an issue for me because if they run one and happens to him me, I know I will win the impact AND a new paint job on the damage. Anyway now that I'm a cyclist myself (who occasionally rides on roads with no bike lanes), I have A LOT more patience following a cyclist before I can safely pass.

JoeyBike

And a generous supply of stupid people.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
- George Carlin

koolerb

i have a few sections of local road road where I can maintain 30 in the 30 mph zone for a mile or so, and yeah, people feel like they have to try and pass me. So they end up passing way close, and slowly which makes it even more stressful. There's definitely some kind of weird psychology at work between drivers and cyclists.

halcyon100

It seems to me that negative attitudes toward cyclists have increased roughly in proportion to the increased cultural attention to global warming and other environmental concerns. I think lots of people feel some anxiety about global warming, depleting the world's gas supply, not having time to exercise, etc. Lots of people also drive cars solo for errands and work. I think this discrepancy produces cognitive dissonance - people don't want to feel they are contributing to bad things happening to the earth by driving their car solo. Seeing a bike on the road with traffic may "unconsciously" be triggering them to consider why they are not also out on a bike. But, if cyclists are all "demonized" as entitled, bad people who blow through stop signs and plow through elderly pedestrians on MUP's... Then, there is "protection" from the anxiety of cognitive dissonance. They would prefer not to use their cars solo all the time, but don't want to be one of those bad and crazy cyclists...
I live near San Francisco and anytime there is any kind of "bike incident" in SF, there will be tons of people posting negative comments about cyclists next to the online news story. For example, if a cyclist is hit by a truck and dies, you'll see a bunch of comments along the lines of: "I bet he blew the stop sign and now the poor driver is going to get sued...

kickstart

FYI, most states have laws that allow "passing" in no passing zones or over a double yellow to go around an obstruction, but its sort of ambiguous when a moving vehicle becomes an "obstruction".
If you apply some not so common sense, a bicycle doing 20 in a 25 mph zone isn't an "obstruction", but a bicycle doing 15 in a 50 mph zone would definitely be an "obstruction" that a driver could legally pass if safe. That's one of the reasons for the keep right laws.

Another thing many don't understand, the vehicle being passed is required to yield to the passing vehicle, whether that pass is legal or not.

On topic

"Have you noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anybody going faster than you is a maniac?
George Carlin-

Bicycles are typically slower than other vehicles........That makes virtually every cyclist an idiot.

kickstart

The highlighted part is correct but the rest really isn't.
Its more likely people are getting sick of being preached to and derided 24/7 by the hypocritical pop counter culture, inundated by "green" marketing, and measured by unrealistic "Hollywood" physical standards. Bicycles are used so often as a "PC" prop by these groups that it has become cliche, and annoying. Cycling has become an image to many.

Guilt by association to a manufactured image isn't limited to cycling, I also experience it as a motorcyclist.

Six jours

Well, I see a solo cyclist riding on the side of the road and I think "There's a fellow human being using the road, and he's vulnerable, compared to my two ton vehicle. I'm going to be very careful passing him".

I see a solo cyclist in the middle of the road, for no apparent reason, and I think "Well, there's some idiot who's been spending too much time on the internet. I need to try not to kill him, but he sure could make life easier for everyone around him".

And I see a group of cyclists on the road, taking a lane and a half, running stop lights and giving everyone the finger, and I think "Those guys are A-holes and it's only a matter of time before some of them end up as hood ornaments. What I wouldn't give for a cop right now."

I suspect this is all pretty typical for American motorists (except perhaps for understanding why the idiot cyclist is in the middle of the road) despite their A&S reputation as evil nutcases who should all be in jail. And I also suspect that posting it was a complete waste of time, as it contains no deep analysis, polysyllabic psychobabble, or strident claims that no cyclist has ever been at fault for anything, anywhere. But hey, it killed five minutes of time that would otherwise have been spent further damaging my liver, so thanks, internet!

keyven

To be honest, the vast majority of comments here love to pin the blame on drivers in any bike/motor vehicle accident. If there's an accident,most of the forum automatically defaults to pinning most if not all of the blame on the car driver, regardless of evidence.

It destroys any sense of veracity. Rather than discussing the situation like adults, the forumers start recounting their own experiences and basically agree the driver must be an evil demon.

JPeters

As a cyclist, if I crash into a pedestrian, it's my fault. Doesn't matter if they were rushing out into the road from behind a parked car, or walking over a crossing through a red walk light, or stepping out into a typically fast bike lane with their back to me (something that happens often where I live) it's entirely my responsibility to make sure I don't hit a slower, more vulnerable pedestrian. Same when I'm driving. The person in the fastest, most dangerous vehicle should always be the one to take responsibility.

Chris516

When I see someone trying to pass on the road I was referring to, there are two portions of they road where there are small hills(the size of a couple speed bumps on top of eachother) in the road also with curves to the right. Motorists' still want to beat me to the hills to get over the first. There are rightly placed speed bumps, to keep motorists' from flying over the small hills and causing a head-on collision.

keyven

Well if that's your mentality, then no wonder there's no much hate on motorists here. Because cyclists NEVER EVER do anything wrong or stupid. And motorists are god-like beings capable of anticipating every possibility. Yet, even if they SHOULD, doesn't mean they are capable of it. I certainly can't.

So if the cyclist does something unexpected, the motorist could be put in a position where an accident is unavoidable. That is, unless you want every motorist to slow to 10mph when they pass a precious cyclist.

And I'm not saying motorists aren't to blame ever. I'm sure in most cases it is the fault of the motorist more than anything, but he suffers the least. However, every accident story spawns a slew of "an evil motorist once..." and it ends up being a group-hug-hate-the-other-side therapy session.

JPeters

I don't mean to hate on motorists, after all, I'm a motorist, as well as a cyclist, as well as a pedestrian, like most people here. But I do think that when driving it's your responsibility to ensure the safety of those more vulnerable. If there's even the slightest chance that you don't think you can't manage that, then you shouldn't be driving. If that means you slow down to 10mph often, then so be it. Small price to pay.

Of course cyclists sometimes act unpredictably, but then again so do kids - who are also most at risk of getting hit by cars - or wild animals, or the blind, or anybody. If you don't have the driving skills or awareness to deal with any and all situations then, again, you shouldn't be driving, because there are plenty of unpredictable situations out there that are potential accidents.

I don't want to sound like I hate on motorists, I just think it's easy to be less engaged with what you're doing when driving, and get lost in your own little bubble, so you have to be extra careful. If you are then there isn't a problem.

I felt just as strongly about cyclists the times I saw them clattering or near-missing pedestrians. (I'm from London, so I've seen a lot of accidents!)

keyven

Motorists are human, and like cyclists, don't have an unlimited attention span. Just as "motorists should take care when cyclists are near", the other way around is just - if not more - important:"cyclists should take care when a vehicle is near". That way, if either the driver or cyclist DO lose focus for a second, a deadly collision won't result.

In a perfect world, every motorist would be 100.0% alert at all times. Every cyclist would know their own road rules - but maybe only 10% really do and the rest simply use common sense (I'm mostly the second but I'm learning). And apparently drivers must learn them too, which is why there's a ton of near-collisions in youtube videos where the 'rights of the cyclists' are called in question.

Also, too many casual cyclists take advantage of their 'hybrid nature' to use crossings or run red lights when it suits them. For every video where a car does something stupid to cyclists, there's a video of cyclists taking unnecessary risks.

mconlonx

I'm not clicking on the vid due to our data plan. Can someone summarize what it said?

mconlonx

When I pass cyclists (or pedestrians) in a car, I'll give them the requisite 3' of passing space, usually more, but I very often don't fully cross into the adjacent lane.

In our state, there is a 3' passing law, but at the same time clarification regarding passing rules for cars over a double yellow was enstated: cars may cross a double yellow line to pass cyclists. Doesn't mean they have to.

Why do you have an issue with cars passing cyclists with plenty of room, but not crossing completely into an adjacent lane to do it?

009jim

I was in the mall this morning getting my groceries and, whilst I was in one of the lanes moving slowly looking for stuff with my cart, this woman came at me at quite a speed with her cart in front of her. I noted her speed and the look on her face and detected intimidatory body language and shifty eye-contact. I stood my ground and prepared for a collision. She came within inches of me and slowed abruptly veering and trying to act like she was just going about her business. What is my point of putting this here - well my point is that her attitude in this case, I believe, is very similar to the attitude she would have if passing a cyclist in her POS motor vehicle. Entitlement. My conclusion is that the laws of the society cannot deal with this adequately. More anarchy is needed so that jerks like this get penalized.

dynodonn 

A number of times, the evidence gathered has been done so with a biased opinion all ready in place, or the motorists actions were within the "confines" of the law at the time, though not considered to be safe driving at the time. Many motor vehicles today cause a number motorists to be greatly disconnected from their outside surroundings making them operate their vehicle with even more sense of impunity, add in a sense of entitlement, and this only endangers vulnerable road users even more.

Aushiker

It is not an vid. It is an audio only, i.e., it was a radio broadcast.

Andrew

keyven

Which is true, yet shouldn't this make cyclists MORE concerned for their safety? And take more steps to prevent getting hit by careless and stupid drivers?

Yet I see many videos where they cross streets and entrances while barely looking because 'it's their god-given right of way'. You'd think being vulnerable would make them far more cautious.

Implement all the rules you want, but careless road users - cyclists included - will always be around. Paranoia is still the best way to prevent accidents.

Maybe it's just me, but as a cyclist, I rather not be at the mercy of someone else's stupid decisions.

dynodonn 

I don't go around riding my bike as being paranoid, the certain times that I came close to doing so were some of my closest encounters of being hit. I don't go around riding my bike in a trance either, but keep a higher sense of awareness than many motorists exhibit.
Motorists will continue to make bad decisions as long as they think that they can get away with it, and vulnerable road users will continually pay the price whether they are operating safely or not.

kickstart

Right of way is one of the most misunderstood principals of the rules and laws of the road.
The rules and laws never give us right of way, they only define when we must yield it to others.

Most times when I see a conflict on the road, both parties are culpable because they are vying for right of way. The derogatory and judgmental language used here about drivers and motor vehicles prove that a lack of respect is a 2 way street.

keyven

Unfortunately, if you commute via bike every day, taking 3 seconds to slow down and ensure every single intersection is safe is going to add up very quickly.

After hundreds or thousands of intersections/side-lane exits, you inevitably run into a careless idiot who shoots out without looking. That's not 'poor driver education' - that's the odds catching up with you.