Best Commuter/Tourer/not too Tank Like-Cross Check? Handsome Devil? Pake build?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 291
Bikes: Bakfiets, 1999 GT Nomad Hybrid, early 70's Schwinn Cruiser 5, Bridgestone MB-3, Trek 520 Disc, Electra Ticino 8D, Ochsner blue Road Bike
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Best Commuter/Tourer/not too Tank Like-Cross Check? Handsome Devil? Pake build?
I have been contemplating a touring bike for a couple years now. I played around with my Hybrid GT Nomad, added upright bars when it originally had flat bars . A couple years ago I was fine touring with it, it flexed a little under load, but it was fine for 60 mile rides.
Recently I rode a Handsome Devil. I am so used to heavier bikes like my Bridgestone MB3 MTB that it felt like a racing bike/comparably. It was fun and nippy. I read it can handle some gravel roads and lighter touring okay. It kind of looks like a Cross Check to me?
My co-worker has a Surly Cross Check and says it would likely be a good choice. If I changed up the drops and added a different stem. How different is this bike from a Cross Check? The one I rode had a 7 or 8 speed Deore gearing set up, likely will need more gears for hills and loads.
The Long Haul Trucker just seems too over built. Trek 520's are too aggressive. Soma has a few bikes that might fit the ticket. I here they have a Ritchey tuning one that is as strong as a LHT but less heavy.
I want something nippy enough but can still handle an overnight camping trip with 35 lbs or so of gear, and not flex too much.
I also want a longer head tube.
Trying to avoid over stemming and stacking. I need a more upright stance.
Have to say, the stock handle bar set up and geometry felt pretty good on the Handsome Devil.
Pake was brought up. I could build it up the way I wanted it. I like the blue paint, too. Never rode one to comment on it's feel. I am assuming it is similar to the CC and Handsome?
I am also open to the idea of a not-too-overbuilt, but appropriate touring bike.. and maybe the Handsome as a fun commuter. The light weight stock wheels might have contributed to the sporty feel and quicker nature, but ... perhaps... they might not hold up to 35+ lbs of gear on a 60 mile trek?
Recently I rode a Handsome Devil. I am so used to heavier bikes like my Bridgestone MB3 MTB that it felt like a racing bike/comparably. It was fun and nippy. I read it can handle some gravel roads and lighter touring okay. It kind of looks like a Cross Check to me?
My co-worker has a Surly Cross Check and says it would likely be a good choice. If I changed up the drops and added a different stem. How different is this bike from a Cross Check? The one I rode had a 7 or 8 speed Deore gearing set up, likely will need more gears for hills and loads.
The Long Haul Trucker just seems too over built. Trek 520's are too aggressive. Soma has a few bikes that might fit the ticket. I here they have a Ritchey tuning one that is as strong as a LHT but less heavy.
I want something nippy enough but can still handle an overnight camping trip with 35 lbs or so of gear, and not flex too much.
I also want a longer head tube.
Trying to avoid over stemming and stacking. I need a more upright stance.
Have to say, the stock handle bar set up and geometry felt pretty good on the Handsome Devil.
Pake was brought up. I could build it up the way I wanted it. I like the blue paint, too. Never rode one to comment on it's feel. I am assuming it is similar to the CC and Handsome?
I am also open to the idea of a not-too-overbuilt, but appropriate touring bike.. and maybe the Handsome as a fun commuter. The light weight stock wheels might have contributed to the sporty feel and quicker nature, but ... perhaps... they might not hold up to 35+ lbs of gear on a 60 mile trek?
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,546
Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones
Mentioned: 179 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5933 Post(s)
Liked 3,618 Times
in
2,147 Posts
It's hard to imagine that the Trek 520 is more aggressive than the LHT. They're both fairly long wheelbase bikes with relatively slack angles which is the hallmark of true touring bikes. The difference you felt may relate more to how the bike was set than the geometry.
If I had to choose one bike to commute, ride, and tour on, I'd lean towards the surly cross check or the soma double cross. In either case, I'd get two wheelsets: one for touring/commuting and the other for fast road riding.
If I had to choose one bike to commute, ride, and tour on, I'd lean towards the surly cross check or the soma double cross. In either case, I'd get two wheelsets: one for touring/commuting and the other for fast road riding.
#3
Banned
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,737
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
8 Posts
Violet Crown Cycles in Austin, Texas offers the hand-built Sam Houston. You can get it in a touring version for loaded touring or as an all-around commuter. They also offer a CX version for those who want one.
Going custom on this build may get you the exact bike you need. That's a good option if an off-the rack bike falls short.
Going custom on this build may get you the exact bike you need. That's a good option if an off-the rack bike falls short.
#6
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Helena, Montana
Posts: 10
Bikes: 2014 Soma Saga, 1990 Klein Piinnacle, 1971 Schwinn Speedster, 2008 Kona Jake
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I like to ride longer rides (30 miles) for leisure and exercise, and I have been riding my new 58cm Soma Saga for a month now. This bike was selected after riding an older Kona cross bike as my road bike for years, which had a terrifically stiff frame and fork and rigid wheel set. The Kona was great for a half hour ride, good for an hour, and abusive and harsh for two or more hours. Tried saddles, tires, shoes, gloves, but it was simply too stiff of a frame; too straight of a fork; too short in the rear end; and too responsive to steering input in the front. I decided I needed a touring or light touring frame, and I wanted steel for the ride characteristics I had always enjoyed on my old road frames and mountain hard tail frames. I was also hoping for something "affordable," which I guess is around $2k built these days.
I test rode LHTs (disc and canti) and a 520, and a new Vaya. The LHTs were fine, but did not feel as lively as I imagined I wanted an all-day bike to be. To me, they are like a pickup truck: great at what they do, but really, most of the time a minivan is quicker, hauls nearly as much just as well, is more efficient, more agile, and just as comfortable as a big truck or SUV. And LHT felt slower than the Saga, although i have no evidence of that, it was just an impression. The Vaya was nice but reminded me of my cross bike too much, with that straight fork and seemingly harsh ride, and for the same cost I felt I could go with an affordable steel touring frame set and get it custom built. I liked the 520 for ride quality but felt I would spend the next year upgrading one thing or another, like wheels, brakes, bars, bar tape... So I opted for a Soma Saga frame, after considering the All City Space Horse as well. It was the sloping top tube that made me pick the Soma over the Space Horse.
The Soma Saga has a long head tube, more upright ride, and is stiff enough in the bottom that I don't feel or notice flex. And at my size ( I am 6ft 215lbs.) I always seem to flex the BB. That is one reason I ride an old Klein MTN bike frame: no flex.
I am using a SRAM Apex 2x10 setup, pauls canti brakes, SOMA Off-road drop bars, and VO Touring hubs/velocity rims. Right now I am on 32 Schwalbe Marathon green guard tires, but will play around with some Continental Gatorskins that may roll easier and be nearly as flat resistant at substantially less weight. Built like this I have no problem on rough roads, gravel roads, or busted up city pavement. And it rides SSSOOOO much better than my old Kona Jake cross bike on the same routes! I plan on doing longer training rides this summer with it, with a few century rides and a season-ending supported charity weeklong tour across Montana. I don't foresee doing fully loaded tours but 35 lbs for a couple nights? Sure. If fully loaded comes around I may need a triple and lower gearing anyway.
One last thing about upright position: I was just about done with drop bars of any kind when heading down the touring bike path, and considered uprights with bar ends or trekking bars as my only way ahead. I don't like or prefer to use traditional drop bars, and struggled with comfort, position, width, for years. My local bike shop owner and builder offered me a ride on his personal road bike that had Soma Junebug off road drops, and it was a revelation! I now use the drops, the brakes and shifters are always at my fingertips, and they are comfortable in any position. Totally natural and intuitive from the first time I tried them. Just a thought.
Good luck with your search and decision.
I test rode LHTs (disc and canti) and a 520, and a new Vaya. The LHTs were fine, but did not feel as lively as I imagined I wanted an all-day bike to be. To me, they are like a pickup truck: great at what they do, but really, most of the time a minivan is quicker, hauls nearly as much just as well, is more efficient, more agile, and just as comfortable as a big truck or SUV. And LHT felt slower than the Saga, although i have no evidence of that, it was just an impression. The Vaya was nice but reminded me of my cross bike too much, with that straight fork and seemingly harsh ride, and for the same cost I felt I could go with an affordable steel touring frame set and get it custom built. I liked the 520 for ride quality but felt I would spend the next year upgrading one thing or another, like wheels, brakes, bars, bar tape... So I opted for a Soma Saga frame, after considering the All City Space Horse as well. It was the sloping top tube that made me pick the Soma over the Space Horse.
The Soma Saga has a long head tube, more upright ride, and is stiff enough in the bottom that I don't feel or notice flex. And at my size ( I am 6ft 215lbs.) I always seem to flex the BB. That is one reason I ride an old Klein MTN bike frame: no flex.
I am using a SRAM Apex 2x10 setup, pauls canti brakes, SOMA Off-road drop bars, and VO Touring hubs/velocity rims. Right now I am on 32 Schwalbe Marathon green guard tires, but will play around with some Continental Gatorskins that may roll easier and be nearly as flat resistant at substantially less weight. Built like this I have no problem on rough roads, gravel roads, or busted up city pavement. And it rides SSSOOOO much better than my old Kona Jake cross bike on the same routes! I plan on doing longer training rides this summer with it, with a few century rides and a season-ending supported charity weeklong tour across Montana. I don't foresee doing fully loaded tours but 35 lbs for a couple nights? Sure. If fully loaded comes around I may need a triple and lower gearing anyway.
One last thing about upright position: I was just about done with drop bars of any kind when heading down the touring bike path, and considered uprights with bar ends or trekking bars as my only way ahead. I don't like or prefer to use traditional drop bars, and struggled with comfort, position, width, for years. My local bike shop owner and builder offered me a ride on his personal road bike that had Soma Junebug off road drops, and it was a revelation! I now use the drops, the brakes and shifters are always at my fingertips, and they are comfortable in any position. Totally natural and intuitive from the first time I tried them. Just a thought.
Good luck with your search and decision.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,737
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
8 Posts
An all-rounder bike will have a sloping top tube to facilitate riding in an upright position. The difference from the road bike is while the road bike emphasizes efficiency at the expense of comfort in order to win a race, the commuter bikes places a premium on all day comfort in the saddle. People used to ride a road bike but now that is an increasingly a niche category. A do everything bike just makes more sense. If a road bike is the race car of the bike world and a fat bike is the land rover of the bike world, a commuter bike is in between - its a capable family car, small SUV and cross-over country explorer. In other words, a jack of all trades and master of none.
That accounts for its increasing popularity and its here to stay.
That accounts for its increasing popularity and its here to stay.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,411
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 32 Times
in
18 Posts
I have a Handsome Devil and have studied the Cross Check's geometry because I was also interested in it.
Comparatively, the Devil has road bike angles (73 degree seat and head tube angles) and the Cross Check is a bit more relaxed (56cm has 72.5 degree seat tube and 72 degree head angle). Their fork rake amounts are only 1mm different but the different head angles give the Devil a trail measurement of 61mm and the Cross Check 69mm. All of these theoretically combine to give the Devil a slightly more nimble ride than the Cross Check. I've never ridden a Cross Check so I cannot confirm this.
The Devil has BB drop of 70mm and the Cross Check has 66mm. Not a big difference but theoretically, the Devil will feel a bit more stable in this dimension. The Devil's listed chainstay length is 43.6cm and the Cross Check is 42.5mm.....again, not a huge difference. The Devil's chainstays can be lengthened to 45.5cm by moving the rear wheel all the way back in the droput. I've ridden it both ways and the longer length seems to be a bit smoother ride and the shorter length is livelier.
The frame weights of the two are probably very similar. My 55cm Devil was listed at 5.06 lbs and my kitchen scale showed it at 4.8 lbs. The total bike, as I built it with a 3x9 drivetrain and heavy duty touring wheels and tires was 26.7 lbs.
The Devil is also available as a frameset and that is how I purchased mine. My preference is for a bike a bit more on the agile side of things and the Devil, with appropriate tires, is very run to ride that way.
Comparatively, the Devil has road bike angles (73 degree seat and head tube angles) and the Cross Check is a bit more relaxed (56cm has 72.5 degree seat tube and 72 degree head angle). Their fork rake amounts are only 1mm different but the different head angles give the Devil a trail measurement of 61mm and the Cross Check 69mm. All of these theoretically combine to give the Devil a slightly more nimble ride than the Cross Check. I've never ridden a Cross Check so I cannot confirm this.
The Devil has BB drop of 70mm and the Cross Check has 66mm. Not a big difference but theoretically, the Devil will feel a bit more stable in this dimension. The Devil's listed chainstay length is 43.6cm and the Cross Check is 42.5mm.....again, not a huge difference. The Devil's chainstays can be lengthened to 45.5cm by moving the rear wheel all the way back in the droput. I've ridden it both ways and the longer length seems to be a bit smoother ride and the shorter length is livelier.
The frame weights of the two are probably very similar. My 55cm Devil was listed at 5.06 lbs and my kitchen scale showed it at 4.8 lbs. The total bike, as I built it with a 3x9 drivetrain and heavy duty touring wheels and tires was 26.7 lbs.
The Devil is also available as a frameset and that is how I purchased mine. My preference is for a bike a bit more on the agile side of things and the Devil, with appropriate tires, is very run to ride that way.
#9
Newbie
I have a Handsome Devil and have studied the Cross Check's geometry because I was also interested in it.
Comparatively, the Devil has road bike angles (73 degree seat and head tube angles) and the Cross Check is a bit more relaxed (56cm has 72.5 degree seat tube and 72 degree head angle). Their fork rake amounts are only 1mm different but the different head angles give the Devil a trail measurement of 61mm and the Cross Check 69mm. All of these theoretically combine to give the Devil a slightly more nimble ride than the Cross Check. I've never ridden a Cross Check so I cannot confirm this.
The Devil has BB drop of 70mm and the Cross Check has 66mm. Not a big difference but theoretically, the Devil will feel a bit more stable in this dimension. The Devil's listed chainstay length is 43.6cm and the Cross Check is 42.5mm.....again, not a huge difference. The Devil's chainstays can be lengthened to 45.5cm by moving the rear wheel all the way back in the droput. I've ridden it both ways and the longer length seems to be a bit smoother ride and the shorter length is livelier.
The frame weights of the two are probably very similar. My 55cm Devil was listed at 5.06 lbs and my kitchen scale showed it at 4.8 lbs. The total bike, as I built it with a 3x9 drivetrain and heavy duty touring wheels and tires was 26.7 lbs.
The Devil is also available as a frameset and that is how I purchased mine. My preference is for a bike a bit more on the agile side of things and the Devil, with appropriate tires, is very run to ride that way.
Comparatively, the Devil has road bike angles (73 degree seat and head tube angles) and the Cross Check is a bit more relaxed (56cm has 72.5 degree seat tube and 72 degree head angle). Their fork rake amounts are only 1mm different but the different head angles give the Devil a trail measurement of 61mm and the Cross Check 69mm. All of these theoretically combine to give the Devil a slightly more nimble ride than the Cross Check. I've never ridden a Cross Check so I cannot confirm this.
The Devil has BB drop of 70mm and the Cross Check has 66mm. Not a big difference but theoretically, the Devil will feel a bit more stable in this dimension. The Devil's listed chainstay length is 43.6cm and the Cross Check is 42.5mm.....again, not a huge difference. The Devil's chainstays can be lengthened to 45.5cm by moving the rear wheel all the way back in the droput. I've ridden it both ways and the longer length seems to be a bit smoother ride and the shorter length is livelier.
The frame weights of the two are probably very similar. My 55cm Devil was listed at 5.06 lbs and my kitchen scale showed it at 4.8 lbs. The total bike, as I built it with a 3x9 drivetrain and heavy duty touring wheels and tires was 26.7 lbs.
The Devil is also available as a frameset and that is how I purchased mine. My preference is for a bike a bit more on the agile side of things and the Devil, with appropriate tires, is very run to ride that way.
Likes For blurcovenky:
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 8,692
Bikes: 2020 Masi Giramondo 700c; 2013 Lynskey Peloton; 1992 Giant Rincon; 1989 Dawes needs parts; 1985 Trek 660; 1985 Fuji Club; 1984 Schwinn Voyager; 1984 Miyata 612; 1977 Raleigh Competition GS
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1128 Post(s)
Liked 257 Times
in
207 Posts
The Trek is far overpriced!
The problem today is supply, so a lot of bikes are not and will not be in stock for a while. Having said that I think you should compare a Masi Giramondo 700c to the Trek or the Surly, and you'll find out that the Masi is a great deal. The other issue with the Masi is finding a local or near local dealer. But I bought one just before Covid became the big supply chain killer, and been riding it for camping for the last 2 years and it's been a fantastic bike. The weak spot on the Masi is the seat is really cheap quality, and the tires are also cheap and thus very heavy at 1,200 grams a PIECE! You would think that tires that weigh that much would be long lasting and flat proof? NOPE! So, I replaced the tires with Schwalbe Amotion tires and saved about 600 grams a tire, of course I went from a 45c to a 38c but I'm good for camping and touring on that size of tire. But the rest of the bike has been bomb proof. Check out the specs and compare it to others.
Another excellent choice is the Kona Sutra bike, again a much better bike than the Trek. I was considering the Kona, but the Masi was cheaper and it offered a bit more of what I wanted on a touring bike.
Some people will find fault with mechanical disk brakes found on the Masi, but I didn't want to be hassling with hydro brakes while camping or touring, mechanical disk brakes are far easier to service in the field if needed.
The problem today is supply, so a lot of bikes are not and will not be in stock for a while. Having said that I think you should compare a Masi Giramondo 700c to the Trek or the Surly, and you'll find out that the Masi is a great deal. The other issue with the Masi is finding a local or near local dealer. But I bought one just before Covid became the big supply chain killer, and been riding it for camping for the last 2 years and it's been a fantastic bike. The weak spot on the Masi is the seat is really cheap quality, and the tires are also cheap and thus very heavy at 1,200 grams a PIECE! You would think that tires that weigh that much would be long lasting and flat proof? NOPE! So, I replaced the tires with Schwalbe Amotion tires and saved about 600 grams a tire, of course I went from a 45c to a 38c but I'm good for camping and touring on that size of tire. But the rest of the bike has been bomb proof. Check out the specs and compare it to others.
Another excellent choice is the Kona Sutra bike, again a much better bike than the Trek. I was considering the Kona, but the Masi was cheaper and it offered a bit more of what I wanted on a touring bike.
Some people will find fault with mechanical disk brakes found on the Masi, but I didn't want to be hassling with hydro brakes while camping or touring, mechanical disk brakes are far easier to service in the field if needed.
Likes For rekmeyata:
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
djkenny
Touring
14
07-28-15 09:42 AM
crandress
Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg)
13
06-23-13 12:42 PM
mynie
Touring
17
01-11-10 03:34 AM