biaddiction

this is the pictures for the original rear derailleur:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/2293083...136256/detail/

hope it will help. Thanks!

devinfan

Cast bronze record, pre-dating Nuovo Record. Dates from around 1963 or thereabouts. Nice derailleur! Yours could use some new pulleys, though...

devinfan

If it is an Atala, the serial number would place it at 1965, which would certainly gel with the components.

biaddiction

maybe this SN on the seat tube says: 1965?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/2293083...57627838966169

biaddiction

seller said it is Atala and size was marked in the bottom of the BB shell: 52cm
https://www.flickr.com/photos/2293083...57627838966169
I notice that there is a welding mark cross the bottom of the BB shell which are similar to these 2 Atala from ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Atal...ht_2060wt_1163

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Atal...ht_2336wt_1163

unworthy1

A welded BB shell was common to many makes, it's no indication of this being an Atala. However, the practice of stamping the frame size on both sides of the BB shell is something I have not seen so much of, so that may be the better argument for this being an Atala (plus the seller's saying it's one).
I haven't seen an Atala with those lugs, but doesn't rule anything 100% out...I'd still like to know why it doesn't have holes for an Atala headbadge. Have you looked inside the head tube with a strong light?

devinfan

This is the best idea yet. I may have been hasty saying it wasn't an Atala. Certainly the seller would have no reason to lie, because whatever it is it is at least as nice as an Atala. The serial number on the seat-tube and the double size markers on the BB both gel as well. The lugs are very pretty, maybe this was some kind of one of for a show for Atala? I too would love to know about the lack of holes for a headbadge because I've never seen an Atala without one.

JunkYardBike

Here ya go: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-got-here-PICS

rhm

Well, that sure takes they mystery out of it !

JunkYardBike

The model is still a mystery!

rhm

Oh, yes, thank goodness. And the missing head badge holes. Okay, all is well. :whew:

biaddiction

Thanks for all of the information. I will take off the stem to see the inside of the head tube once my wrist get well. I will keep you guys posted...can't wait to polish it...

unworthy1

thanks for finding the old thread and solving at least this much of it...good job!

devinfan

Very interesting! Maybe 1966 (the year of the frame in the other thread) is the year they switched from those Nervex-style lugs to the simpler Italian-style ones. I can say for certain mine is a '67 and the lugs are the common type. If the tubing decals on the OP's frame are original (they certainly look original) it would make this frame an Atala Record, since the Competizione (the next one down from the top) was only 3 tubes Columbus. The headbadge holes must have been filled in at some point. Beautiful bike anyway, if it rides anything like mine you're in for a real treat.

rhm

I can't believe the holes were filled. The whole frame is chromed, isn't it? If the tubing decal is original (and it looks that way to me), and the lug lining (ditto), then the chrome must be original. I've never seen an Atala with a decal for a headbadge, but I'd guess that's what this had.

JunkYardBike

This requires a bit more forensic work, I think. Biaddiction, you state above that there is no hole(s) in the headtube, but did you look closely for possible filler?

Looking at the left side of this headtube shot, what's that stuff that looks like a patch or sticker residue? Is there something similar on the right side?



Also, why is the Columbus tubing decal so ragged on the bottom edge? I think it's possible this frame was once painted but has subsequently been scraped clean. Less likely that it was re-chromed, but who knows.

As per headbadge decals, I know that later Atalas did in fact come with decal headbadges, but I'd suppose one this early should be screwed on.

biaddiction

I will look it up tonight.

rhm

The holes should be a bit farther back. I really thin kyou'd see some trace here:


or here:


Judging by the patina I think the head badge, if there ever was one, must have been removed a very long time ago. Oxidation like that sets in slowly, and if there was a headbadge there for long, it would have protected that area better than the surrounding area. I don't think there ever was one.

I wonder what other brands came from the same factory (Lygie, for one).

JunkYardBike

Duh! Never saw his other link with additional photos.

Otis mentions an Atala built Lygie in the other thread.

devinfan

Nice idea, I've seen Lygie's with similar lugs, and they ALSO had the double size #'s on the bb shell, but they had screwed on headbadges too! I think we'll have to take the original owner's word for it that it is in fact an Atala. He put enough work into it (switching from Record to Nuovo Record etc.) that I think we can assume he knew what kind of bike he had. I can't see any evidence at all of a hole in that head-tube, so maybe for some reason this one came without one. I can't find any reference to a chrome option in any of the early catalogs for the Record frame, so maybe the owner custom ordered this one. If he also asked for no decals, is it possible they didn't drill for a headbadge at all prior to the chroming?

ultraman6970

At some point the paint was sanded and IMO screwed up the finishing. Well thats life, nice find!

devinfan

I'm not sure. I think after some gentle rust removal and polishing you'll be surprised.

wrk101

FWIW: My recent chrome Katakura had similar rust speckling (not as bad, but there all over). OA took care of it. The rust I see in those pics is very fixable.

ultraman6970

U cant compare the chrome job under the paint in the katakura with an italian chrome job that will be painted over the top. I remember your bike and rocks but two different worlds in finishing in here. Japanese take care of those tiny details, italian just try to get the bike off the line quick.

Too much work IMO. but a lot of naval jelly and simichrome and would come back. But from here i can see that the bike was not polished 100% because it was painted with chromed lugs. I would do the same type of finish just to restore it as it was.

biaddiction

so I look at the head tube closely again now. The chrome surface under those rust is actually very smooth and didn't see any sign of been filled...?
but I have a thought now. Do you guys think because this is sort of "short" head tube so the headbadge can't fit in this small area? I measure the height is only 70mm. Maybe twoducks or someone can provide the size of this headbadge? Thoughts?