How many are powder coating verses painting your collectable bikes?
11-29-11, 11:31 AM
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How many are powder coating verses painting your collectable bikes?
Being a novice I know nothing about choosing the correct finish for a classic or vintage bike. I think I would be more concerned about durability than looks, but I've heard it's possible to have both with powder coating. All things considered, is it wise to powder coat a high end collector bike? How will it affect the value if a collectable vintage bike is powder coated instead of painted? What are the cost differences? How many of you chose to powder coat verses paint your collectable bikes.
Pros and cons please.
Pros and cons please.
Last edited by silvercreek; 11-29-11 at 11:40 AM.
11-29-11, 11:42 AM
#2
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It really depends on what you have in mind for the bike. If you are planning a restore, then paint is the only route to go. No "true" collector is going to want a powder coated frame. If you just want to ride it, then powder coat is a viable option. A good paint job is a minimum of $300-$400 and if you go really nuts can be up to $1000. A decent powder coat is around $100. By decent I mean it is a 5 footer...it looks good about 5 feet away. Powder coating can be too heavy and you lose the details of pantographing and lug work, so if you want those preserved, then the cost of the powder coat just went up.
11-29-11, 11:45 AM
#3
FBoD Member at Large
I went paint, the painter is local and VERY reasonable.
Frameset after paint and surface applied VeloCals decals:
(color is off, it's more gray than bluish)
Without decals:
Lug closeup:
Frameset after paint and surface applied VeloCals decals:
(color is off, it's more gray than bluish)
Without decals:
Lug closeup:
11-29-11, 11:49 AM
#4
Lotus Monomaniac
I worked at both a powder coating shop (helper) and a paint shop (painter). In my opinion powder coating is a utility/commercial finish and paint is a quality restoration finish. You can pick your application to suit your needs. Most of my woodworking machinery and yard equipment restorations get powder coated, my bikes get painted.
11-29-11, 12:11 PM
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11-29-11, 12:26 PM
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I'd only pc a foul weather utility bike. Original paint almost always looks better.
Anybody know of any decent painters near Chicago?
Anybody know of any decent painters near Chicago?
11-29-11, 12:53 PM
#8
likes to ride an old bike
I think most folks are neither powder coating nor painting their "collectable" bikes if they're worried about (monetary) value. Most of the collector value of a classic bike is in cachet, and the cachet is lost along with the originality.
If it's a rider, then it can go either way like you said. Paint is probably better if you are thinking of it as a "nice looking" bike, but people have posted some pics of really nice PC jobs, too.
I used wet paint on mine, because I wanted to do it myself. It cost me $50 + 20 hours labor and was a lot of fun. If I value that time at the $7/hour it costs to see a new-release movie, I figure I saved $90 just in entertainment expenses. ;-)
If it's a rider, then it can go either way like you said. Paint is probably better if you are thinking of it as a "nice looking" bike, but people have posted some pics of really nice PC jobs, too.
I used wet paint on mine, because I wanted to do it myself. It cost me $50 + 20 hours labor and was a lot of fun. If I value that time at the $7/hour it costs to see a new-release movie, I figure I saved $90 just in entertainment expenses. ;-)
11-29-11, 12:54 PM
#9
aka: Dr. Cannondale
Depends on the frame as well as the useage. Fillet brazed frames like Cannondales look just fine with powdercoat. Some lugged steel frames do not translate well with powder coat, especially if the PC technician has a heavy hand. Single color, opaque = powder coat. Fancy, metallics or graphics, I suggest wet paint. In either case, the person holding the color gun determines what it looks like, so pay accordingly.
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11-29-11, 12:57 PM
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IMO, once you remove the original finish, you have already removed the only real reason to be worried about what is on the frame. You have already taken off the original finish and no collector is going to give you top dollar for a refinished bike. While a quality paint job will likely bring more than a PC bike, I would submit that a quality PC bike will be better than a low quality painted bike. However, if you are looking for a restoration that is as close to the original as possible, paint is your best bet.
A good PC shop like Spectrum can give a finish every bit as pretty as most paint jobs. The cost can be as much or more than the paint job.
In terms of durablity, there is really no contest. A PC finish will always be more durable than paint. You run the risk of having a poor finish like mentioned above and losing detail around lugs. In my case, durability was my primary consideration. I will find out in a few days if it was worth it.
Cost? I believe that my total cost when I am done will be well south of $200 and I will have a bike with a base powder coat, painted on graphics, and a painted clear coat on top. It will be highly durable and very pretty.
I know that many would disagree with my belief that PCing is a viable option on a quality frame and be frankly apalled, but I prefer a more durable finish and in the end you are the one who has to live with it.
A good PC shop like Spectrum can give a finish every bit as pretty as most paint jobs. The cost can be as much or more than the paint job.
In terms of durablity, there is really no contest. A PC finish will always be more durable than paint. You run the risk of having a poor finish like mentioned above and losing detail around lugs. In my case, durability was my primary consideration. I will find out in a few days if it was worth it.
Cost? I believe that my total cost when I am done will be well south of $200 and I will have a bike with a base powder coat, painted on graphics, and a painted clear coat on top. It will be highly durable and very pretty.
I know that many would disagree with my belief that PCing is a viable option on a quality frame and be frankly apalled, but I prefer a more durable finish and in the end you are the one who has to live with it.
11-29-11, 02:02 PM
#12
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IMO, once you remove the original finish, you have already removed the only real reason to be worried about what is on the frame. You have already taken off the original finish and no collector is going to give you top dollar for a refinished bike. While a quality paint job will likely bring more than a PC bike, I would submit that a quality PC bike will be better than a low quality painted bike. However, if you are looking for a restoration that is as close to the original as possible, paint is your best bet.
A good PC shop like Spectrum can give a finish every bit as pretty as most paint jobs. The cost can be as much or more than the paint job.
In terms of durablity, there is really no contest. A PC finish will always be more durable than paint. You run the risk of having a poor finish like mentioned above and losing detail around lugs. In my case, durability was my primary consideration. I will find out in a few days if it was worth it.
Cost? I believe that my total cost when I am done will be well south of $200 and I will have a bike with a base powder coat, painted on graphics, and a painted clear coat on top. It will be highly durable and very pretty.
I know that many would disagree with my belief that PCing is a viable option on a quality frame and be frankly apalled, but I prefer a more durable finish and in the end you are the one who has to live with it.
A good PC shop like Spectrum can give a finish every bit as pretty as most paint jobs. The cost can be as much or more than the paint job.
In terms of durablity, there is really no contest. A PC finish will always be more durable than paint. You run the risk of having a poor finish like mentioned above and losing detail around lugs. In my case, durability was my primary consideration. I will find out in a few days if it was worth it.
Cost? I believe that my total cost when I am done will be well south of $200 and I will have a bike with a base powder coat, painted on graphics, and a painted clear coat on top. It will be highly durable and very pretty.
I know that many would disagree with my belief that PCing is a viable option on a quality frame and be frankly apalled, but I prefer a more durable finish and in the end you are the one who has to live with it.
The pics make it look worse than it actually was. I really felt like the frame needed to be "explored" and really the only way to do that was strip the paint, ensure the integrity, and repaint. If I could have saved the original finish I would have.
11-29-11, 02:10 PM
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I struggled with that with my Fuji Professional above. But, the rust issues the frame had really left me with no choice:
The pics make it look worse than it actually was. I really felt like the frame needed to be "explored" and really the only way to do that was strip the paint, ensure the integrity, and repaint. If I could have saved the original finish I would have.
The pics make it look worse than it actually was. I really felt like the frame needed to be "explored" and really the only way to do that was strip the paint, ensure the integrity, and repaint. If I could have saved the original finish I would have.
11-29-11, 02:16 PM
#14
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75% go to the coater. OK, 3 for durability, cost, and speed, one color. (1 week turnaround). 3x$70 = $210.
25% go to the painter. OK, 1 for high end quality and color; blasted, primed, 2 base/4 clear over decals. $350
I'm about to get very involved in coating a 4th frame. it's a higher end frame and I want it to be right. The coating guy is not an experienced painter, and I'm handling the masking of the chromed lugs, etc. Because I know I have to live with it no matter what, I'm trying to be proactive. (I really hate that corporate-speak, but that's accurate.)
25% go to the painter. OK, 1 for high end quality and color; blasted, primed, 2 base/4 clear over decals. $350
I'm about to get very involved in coating a 4th frame. it's a higher end frame and I want it to be right. The coating guy is not an experienced painter, and I'm handling the masking of the chromed lugs, etc. Because I know I have to live with it no matter what, I'm trying to be proactive. (I really hate that corporate-speak, but that's accurate.)
Last edited by RobbieTunes; 11-29-11 at 02:46 PM.
11-29-11, 02:44 PM
#15
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Another factor when deciding between paint and powdercoat is the color you want to go with. For standard, non-metallic colors, powdercoating usually looks fine. When I got my PX-10 done, I didn't hesitate to go with powdercoating since Peugeots of that generation weren't exactly known for their paint quality, and all I needed was a basic semi-gloss black. If I were trying to get the perfect shade of Merckx orange, I might start looking into paint.
However, a good powdercoater that specializes in bicycles can pull off a great finish; as evident in the recent powerdercoat pictures thread.
However, a good powdercoater that specializes in bicycles can pull off a great finish; as evident in the recent powerdercoat pictures thread.
11-29-11, 03:30 PM
#16
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I guess I don't get the whole premise of the question. Collectable bike = don't repaint or powder coat.
Now once a bike is so distressed it needs paint to survive, then that is a different question. Keith's bike above is a nice example where painting made a lot of sense.
But an original and collectible bike, the original paint and decals are a significant part of the value. I learned this the hard way with antique furniture (been buying/collecting antique furniture for almost 50 years). The stuff early on that I refinished now has a significantly lower value than the stuff I left alone. Patina = value.
It also depends what you call "collectible". To me, there are a few models from most brands that are "collectible", then there are a lot of nice models, average models, and then so so models.
Now once a bike is so distressed it needs paint to survive, then that is a different question. Keith's bike above is a nice example where painting made a lot of sense.
But an original and collectible bike, the original paint and decals are a significant part of the value. I learned this the hard way with antique furniture (been buying/collecting antique furniture for almost 50 years). The stuff early on that I refinished now has a significantly lower value than the stuff I left alone. Patina = value.
It also depends what you call "collectible". To me, there are a few models from most brands that are "collectible", then there are a lot of nice models, average models, and then so so models.
Last edited by wrk101; 11-29-11 at 03:52 PM.
11-29-11, 05:30 PM
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I guess I don't get the whole premise of the question. Collectable bike = don't repaint or powder coat.
Now once a bike is so distressed it needs paint to survive, then that is a different question. Keith's bike above is a nice example where painting made a lot of sense.
But an original and collectible bike, the original paint and decals are a significant part of the value. I learned this the hard way with antique furniture (been buying/collecting antique furniture for almost 50 years). The stuff early on that I refinished now has a significantly lower value than the stuff I left alone. Patina = value.
It also depends what you call "collectible". To me, there are a few models from most brands that are "collectible", then there are a lot of nice models, average models, and then so so models.
Now once a bike is so distressed it needs paint to survive, then that is a different question. Keith's bike above is a nice example where painting made a lot of sense.
But an original and collectible bike, the original paint and decals are a significant part of the value. I learned this the hard way with antique furniture (been buying/collecting antique furniture for almost 50 years). The stuff early on that I refinished now has a significantly lower value than the stuff I left alone. Patina = value.
It also depends what you call "collectible". To me, there are a few models from most brands that are "collectible", then there are a lot of nice models, average models, and then so so models.
11-29-11, 05:44 PM
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A 1976 Superior is a pretty special bike second right behind the Paramount as I recall. Should continue to appreciate in value. I would be very pleased to add a Superior to my fleet! And I have yet to have added a 1970s Paramount either.
What is high end collectible bike is a continually changing list, and in the eye of the collector. For example, I have several Japanese built Schwinns, many would not consider them high end collectible bikes. Depends on your point of view. Replicating the original paint on a couple of them would be very costly and difficult. So even though they are not high end, they are desirable (IMHO) and worthy of maintaining the original paint and decals.
What is high end collectible bike is a continually changing list, and in the eye of the collector. For example, I have several Japanese built Schwinns, many would not consider them high end collectible bikes. Depends on your point of view. Replicating the original paint on a couple of them would be very costly and difficult. So even though they are not high end, they are desirable (IMHO) and worthy of maintaining the original paint and decals.
Last edited by wrk101; 11-29-11 at 05:47 PM.
11-29-11, 06:13 PM
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11-29-11, 06:31 PM
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i think everyone gave great answers. it is always a stirring debate.
me? i'll throw a rattlecan job of my chosen color on anything if it will look better than what's already there. i don't have any "collectible" bikes since i use them for utility.
me? i'll throw a rattlecan job of my chosen color on anything if it will look better than what's already there. i don't have any "collectible" bikes since i use them for utility.
11-29-11, 06:42 PM
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I'm interested to see what yours turns out like.
11-29-11, 08:05 PM
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I went to San Tan Powder Coating in Mesa. This is a guy who used to work for a larger automotive coating/painting company that was acquired. He operates out of his garage and specializes in automotive, motorcycles and bikes, and advertises in the CL bike section. I saw his work and it looks fine. We'll see how it goes.
11-29-11, 08:46 PM
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i usually pc, but i've got one nice bike that needs special masking to do it right, so i sent it back to the builder and had him repaint and chrome part of it. cost me a fortune. looks nice, but isn't as tough as the pc. i get just as many compliments on the pc as the wet paint at 1/4 the price. so i guess i prefer pc.
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