The $2,000 threshold
12-03-12, 06:32 PM
#51
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Rusty gold!
I'll echo Bill's comments - compared to most antique and collector markets, bicycles are surprisingly affordable and I don't think we've come close to the ceiling on many of them. How many markets are there where you can you have the absolute best for under $5,000?
I'll echo Bill's comments - compared to most antique and collector markets, bicycles are surprisingly affordable and I don't think we've come close to the ceiling on many of them. How many markets are there where you can you have the absolute best for under $5,000?
I think we've hit the ceiling on a lot of them, remember, that $5,000 bike only cost $750 when it was new.
12-03-12, 06:55 PM
#53
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Chombi
12-03-12, 07:01 PM
#54
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When I'm dead, I'm sure my wife will decide "those old bikes" are actually "those old solid gold bikes."
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12-03-12, 07:55 PM
#56
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12-04-12, 06:06 AM
#58
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12-04-12, 08:39 AM
#59
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Kleins are one of those few brands that I will pick up any style (MTB, road bike, whatever), in any size, and will come up on the price, if the paint is pristine.
Do a search on ebay, sort by highest price first, and see what some of their nicer MTBs are going for.
Last edited by wrk101; 12-04-12 at 08:43 AM.
12-04-12, 01:59 PM
#60
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Only read the first page of comments before adding my own, but it's not just the vintage bikes that have driven everything up. There's halo bikes that cost $12K to $15K and make other high prices more plausible. There's also the fact that everything in general has gone up. I got an aluminum Ultrgra Bianchi in 1999 for $1700 ($1900 msrp) and now an Ultegra bike is minimally 3k.
12-04-12, 02:13 PM
#61
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I think so long as cycling becomes more popular as a whole, there will be a greater number of people looking back at its history and looking to purchase classic bikes of all styles and eras. I cordially disagree with Miamijim; as the sport becomes more main stream, there will be a greater number of people, including well heeled people, competing for our Cinellis. Additionally, adjusting for inflation, that $750 bike cost quite a bit and few people were buying them.
Things like 80s Japanese bikes, Raleigh Competitions and other relatively common, high quality bikes, are going to increase in value based on their comparative value to current steel bikes. In other words, those $300 Shimano 600 level bikes may very well increase to $400 - $450 (and they already are creeping) because that is still such a good value when compared to a base level $800 bike purchased new.
The more high dollar bikes are going to continue to creep up as an expanding base equates to more interest. I don't think the Confentes and Rene Herse level bikes have peaked.
Things like 80s Japanese bikes, Raleigh Competitions and other relatively common, high quality bikes, are going to increase in value based on their comparative value to current steel bikes. In other words, those $300 Shimano 600 level bikes may very well increase to $400 - $450 (and they already are creeping) because that is still such a good value when compared to a base level $800 bike purchased new.
The more high dollar bikes are going to continue to creep up as an expanding base equates to more interest. I don't think the Confentes and Rene Herse level bikes have peaked.
Last edited by KonAaron Snake; 12-04-12 at 02:24 PM.
12-04-12, 05:19 PM
#64
Senior Member
If I may chime in with a short rebuttal, Lenton 58. I disagree with some strength. A 34 Ford replica is not close enough, in my book.
It's a re-pop. Ever see a Shelby Cobra repro? Kind of cool but nowhere near the real deal. I wouldn't buy a '65 Cinelli SC replica. No interest at all, no matter what the price. Part of the appeal of these old bikes to me is that there aren't many of the good ones around. Plenty of old bikes around. But not many 65 Cinelli SC's, just to use one random example.
It's a re-pop. Ever see a Shelby Cobra repro? Kind of cool but nowhere near the real deal. I wouldn't buy a '65 Cinelli SC replica. No interest at all, no matter what the price. Part of the appeal of these old bikes to me is that there aren't many of the good ones around. Plenty of old bikes around. But not many 65 Cinelli SC's, just to use one random example.
I wanted make the point that someday we interested parties may have to make do with erzatz stuff ... or wannabe-custom-made steel bicycle frames. The market will simply eliminate most of us on this forum. It will not happen this week ... nor next month. But, it could happen by increments.
Yes ... I've seen Shelby Cobra repos. And most laughably ... phony plastic Ferraris. Yes, I do appreciate the difference: to me, even Shelby Cobras do not hold the mystique of the AC Bristol, which was the basis of the original Shelby. So I get your point exactly and agree with you
Your comments about China are very interesting and it will be very interesting to see if the Chinese ever do get the vintage bike bug. Somehow I kind of doubt it, but it's possible. They didn't have European race bikes in their culture, for instance, so they are relatively unknown. The young collectors I know in Beijing are mostly after the really old stuff. Ming dynasty and before!
I've not been to China myself, but colleagues of mine here in Japan have. I'm astonished in regards to what they tell me about how fast things are changing there. If C&V velo becomes a fad among the Chinese, I believe some interesting things will develop.
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Last edited by Lenton58; 12-04-12 at 05:24 PM.
12-04-12, 05:31 PM
#65
Banned.
I have been urged to re-coat, re-decal, then build and market Ironman bikes with nice used modern components. It was not worth considering 2 years ago, and seems worth a thought now. Perhaps in two years, it will be something I should have done, instead of "did." I'll probably start with 4-5 and see how it goes. I'm sure if it works out, then my supply will increase in value/cost. At that point, I may have to stop the experiment, but you never know. I just don't know how other, lesser-known models would sell, or even if the Ironman bikes will, but it's certainly worth a try.
It only seems worth a try given current trends. I simply think a re-done Ironman with mid-level components will be a better bike than the entry-level steel bike, or even the retro steel bikes that are out there in the price range I'm hoping for.
I'm not thinking of $2000 C&V bikes. I'm thinking of $1000 re-done C&V bikes with modern components. Then taking them to Toronto, maybe through Buffalo.
It only seems worth a try given current trends. I simply think a re-done Ironman with mid-level components will be a better bike than the entry-level steel bike, or even the retro steel bikes that are out there in the price range I'm hoping for.
I'm not thinking of $2000 C&V bikes. I'm thinking of $1000 re-done C&V bikes with modern components. Then taking them to Toronto, maybe through Buffalo.
12-04-12, 05:55 PM
#66
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There really appear to be a couple different C&V markets.
There is the high end 98% condition bikes of a high pedigree sporting the best components of a certain time. These are the roadie collector bikes. These people probably have other riders, and these are for show or hanging on the wall. This value will probably continue to increase as the boomers slow down and want to "appreciate things".
There is the functional C&V market, where the bikes are appreciated in terms of performance and value on those terms only. This is the fuel for the retro roadies with shimergo/STI/etc. An extra 2 lbs in the frame, while keeping an awesome steel ride, and modern wheels and shifters, is a worthy endeavor. The touring side of things is also a participant in this C&V market, not many new tourers (in terms of selection) vs old
Not sure what that means, but supply has sure slowed down lately. Prices for mid level bikes are increasing, from what I can tell.
There is the high end 98% condition bikes of a high pedigree sporting the best components of a certain time. These are the roadie collector bikes. These people probably have other riders, and these are for show or hanging on the wall. This value will probably continue to increase as the boomers slow down and want to "appreciate things".
There is the functional C&V market, where the bikes are appreciated in terms of performance and value on those terms only. This is the fuel for the retro roadies with shimergo/STI/etc. An extra 2 lbs in the frame, while keeping an awesome steel ride, and modern wheels and shifters, is a worthy endeavor. The touring side of things is also a participant in this C&V market, not many new tourers (in terms of selection) vs old
Not sure what that means, but supply has sure slowed down lately. Prices for mid level bikes are increasing, from what I can tell.
12-04-12, 06:30 PM
#67
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There has been a drastic drop in value of Peugeot mid level bikes in the last year or so. PSN, PSV and PGNs have seen their selling prices go down by about a hundred bucks since two years ago. PSVs used to be snatched up quickly at ebay will now tend to languish and sell for dropped reserved prices after a few auction tries by the sellers.
I have not noticed it, but which brands/models have been rising in value lately??
Chombi
12-04-12, 07:24 PM
#68
There is the functional C&V market, where the bikes are appreciated in terms of performance and value on those terms only. This is the fuel for the retro roadies with shimergo/STI/etc. An extra 2 lbs in the frame, while keeping an awesome steel ride, and modern wheels and shifters, is a worthy endeavor. The touring side of things is also a participant in this C&V market, not many new tourers (in terms of selection) vs old
12-04-12, 07:33 PM
#69
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Put one of these on my wish list - $1400.00 but pretty pretty, in my opinion...
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"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
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12-04-12, 08:11 PM
#71
Senior Member
12-04-12, 08:13 PM
#72
In the right lane
Using my built-in-the-cage-in-Chicago '71 Paramount as an example, there was a window of time when these bikes were made. They are desirable bikes to guys like me, and they'll never make those again; not in America, not like that. I didn't pay $2000 for it, but I did purchase it on ebay, and I did pay a lot more than I would have ever imagined that I would pay for an old bike on ebay. In fact, the bike had a very high starting bid (it only took one bid to buy it in the end), and I just couldn't bring myself to bid on it for several days because of the price.
An employee of mine in the bike shop, a young guy who's not really into vintage bikes but who does have a certain wisdom beyond his years, talked to me about it. He knew I wanted it very badly, and he also saw that I was having a problem with the idea of paying that much for a forty year old bike on ebay. In the end, he simply said, "you know, we're getting further and further away from 1971."
That did it. I bid within the next few minutes.
An employee of mine in the bike shop, a young guy who's not really into vintage bikes but who does have a certain wisdom beyond his years, talked to me about it. He knew I wanted it very badly, and he also saw that I was having a problem with the idea of paying that much for a forty year old bike on ebay. In the end, he simply said, "you know, we're getting further and further away from 1971."
That did it. I bid within the next few minutes.
12-04-12, 08:55 PM
#74
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Gone past the $2000 mark? I could afford to, maybe, but the divorce would mean that I would have to sell the big bucks bike right away, anyway:-(
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"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
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12-04-12, 09:28 PM
#75
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One other thing I might interject is that the small modern steel builders are getting more attention than they used to. Guys like Kirk, Zanconado, Sachs, IF, Winter bikes, Fast Boy Cycles, Strong are getting more press through NAHBS and with the huge surge in popularity in cyclocross. People want their bikes but I'm sure many are unable to pony up $3k for a frame or a place in the queue for a Sachs for example.
So they educate themselves further and turn more towards the vintage market. Then there's the simple fact that all this newish attention on steel bikes just increases demand for all steel bikes.
So they educate themselves further and turn more towards the vintage market. Then there's the simple fact that all this newish attention on steel bikes just increases demand for all steel bikes.
