surgeonstone

Well said.

Pedalocity

Leaving aside the incredible ignorance of assuming that this is true of all or even most overweight people, the sad part is that you are largely correct about the marketing of comfort bikes, large padded saddles, etc.

It's sad because all of those things marketed that way are almost entirely counterproductive to the putting miles on the bike and getting the associated exercise. Those heavy, upright comfort bikes and wide saddles make riding any serious distance both unnecessarily difficult and really uncomfortable (especially for the segment being marketed too) and all too often it ends in pain, frustration, and a permanently garaged barely used bike.

My own experience as one of those contemptible fat people you dismiss so derisively, was that buying a performance hybrid as my first bike was a mistake precisely because at my (then over 300lb) weight, my wrists and hands could not take the hand positions on the flat bar and my sit bones couldn't take the weight they were forced to carry.

Moving to an endurance geometry road bike was a revelation in comfort and ease of riding longer distances since my weight was better balanced between the variety of hand positions on the bars, the saddle, and my feet. Plus, the comparative ease of riding farther, faster, and more comfortably on a road bike really encouraged me to ride more, further, and to push myself harder. Not only great for fitness, but from a comfort perspective, bikes almost necessarily get more comfortable the harder you can push on them (as your feet carry more of the weight) and the more time you spend on them (sit bones toughen up, your flexibility and core muscle strength tend to improve, etc.)

Even then, as I've gotten a little lighter and stronger, I've gone from a very heavily padded Specialized Milano Sport saddle to a Fizik Aliante (solved some chafing issues I was having, didn't need that much padding anymore). I still need the gel inserts and heavily padded bar tape, however, as my left hand is particularly susceptible to ulnar nerve induced numbness unless I use heavily padded bars and position my left hand carefully to avoid carrying weight on the wrong spot. As long as I am careful about positioning my left hand correctly, my hands are fine.

One particular spot on my upper right shoulder blade does tend to hurt on longer rides, but that's a pre-existing issue induced by the way I used to sleep rather than the bike itself.

An interesting side note, is that despite being one of those fat people, my hip and upper body flexibility is pretty good, as is my core muscle strength. As a result, I haven't noticed any appreciable difference either in that right shoulder issue or left wrist sensitivity based on the height of the bars. I've gone from full-height +8deg stem to one spacer -8deg with no appreciable difference in hand or upper body comfort, and am flexible enough to use the drops for extended periods without issue. As mentioned above, I think that's partially explained by improving strength as a rider.

I am, however, seriously considering going to a carbon stem and handlebars for the improved vibration dampening. I suspect this would help with the left hand positional sensitivity.

loimpact

While I don't doubt they're more comfortable, I'd guess for the pros on cobblestones it has more to do with shock absorption. The enduro frames have more shock absorbing triangles and TT/HT angles. Aside from that, I don't think they much care about how the guys feel. They just want the ride to be more stable to keep wheels on the ground, riders up and their potential winner to......well.....win.

I will say, however, that despite that the Roubaix & Synapses get used on the big tours they are still raked pretty steep. (again, probably two sizes too small a frame). You have to look & recognize the frame style to identify that they're really on an enduro because they usually "slam" those too.

In regards to tall guys riding 52cm frames, I don't know that they go that small (assuming "tall" means over 6ft) but I was surprised to hear Tejay Van Garderen has ridden 56, 55 and I think I even read once where he rode a 54cm frame before at 6'1" tall. Now, like basketball players, maybe he's not really, truly 6'1" but I do still find it funny for a guy who could easily ride a 58cm if not 60cm if he was casually riding.

Pedalocity

And what would you suggest instead?

Would it be better that they give up and quit to satisfy your sneering judgementalism?

Instead, I say that whatever someone needs to do to get comfortable enough on a bike that they want to get out there and ride regularly, they should do. If they get into it and get hooked, like I did, they'll eventually need to make far fewer of those compromises, while enjoying the benefits of improving their health as well as the joys of cycling.

loimpact

Interesting bit about Tejay's bike..........

Bike news and reviews | road.cc

His saddle to bar drop is not as great as I would imagine for the "slammed" crowd which might lead me to believe he's not a full 6'1" tall in reality. Though his spread is long on that setup. (35mm setback w/ seat rails set back *AND* a 140mm stem?!?! YIKES!!!)

If I rode that bike for more than 10 minutes, I'd need to be in traction for a while to restore my posture. LOL

I wonder where his KOPS is at??

Jaeger99

I'm not using old-time frames as a point of reference. My only real experience with road bikes is within the contemporary context. I did own one back in the day, but didn't pay much attention to particulars of design or fit. It was just my bike. While there may be individual riders whose physique actually dictates such extremely jacked up seat posts, I think we agree that this doesn't likely explain the bulk of the examples we see here in plentiful supply on the forums. It is a fad, and it is pretty silly.

rpenmanparker 

Oh, I am liking this thread I started more and more. I quote Charles Dickens from "A Tale of Two Cities."

"It is a far, far better thing I do than ever I have done."

Dave Cutter

If the LBS could put a bicycle on the Comfort Meter and then print out a numeric rating... this idea of comfort would quickly become moot. But since the concept of bicycle comfort is completely subjective it becomes a winless competition.

If I said I have a five pound bicycle.... I'd be called on it. Everyone knows (on can find via a search) the gram weight of everything. But if I swear by the "comfort" of my new (hugely fat) 25c Vittoria Zaffiro's.... how could I be called wrong? What figure or comfort scale could cast doubt on my opinion of comfort?

Yet... just like people get hooked on bicycle weight, or wattage output, mileage, or whatever. We can also get hooked on the pursuit of comfort. Bicycles are a mature technology. Significant improvements to modern bikes will not likely come from someone's garage. But we can all tinker with fit or aftermarket parts and improve our "comfort". Or... at least we can try.

likebike23

I don't understand all of this comfort talk either. Back in the day if you were uncomfortable, you just shut up and rotated your bars so that the drops would be above the tops. I think the kids call them "bum bars" or something.

rpenmanparker 

Shutting up was likely the key difference between then and now. Just playing with you guys. Thanks for all the great responses.

loimpact

Ha ha.....I forgot about that, tho I do remember it!! It was crazy and I never did try it on my SR, but in hindsight, I probably should have. Braking must've been easy-peasy, barely squeezy!! Here's one version....



ANd here's a bike for which I don't have the kind of chiropractic funds to afford.......(comfy, eh?).....

Bandera

Or something indeed.
Here's a pic of the coolest kid's bike, Nibali in '14 TdF yellow.
Pro cyclists ride a fit that produces the best performance in a machine that will be ridden for very long distances in the most challenging conditions by riders with tens of thousands of racing miles in their legs.

Setting up a similar fit for a recreational cyclist will require considerable core strength and a great many hours of seat time to adapt, good luck w/ that.

-Bandera

chasm54

And just to make it worse, Nibali's position is far from extreme by TdF peloton standards.

elcruxio

Well you know Nibali is a pretty extreme example even by pro standards. Usually the pro's ride pretty manageable drops in the region on four to five inches.
You also have to take into account the fact that rider proportions have a huge effect on bike fit and especially drop. I really cannot understand the frothing about saddle/bar drop and if you don't have both level you are just a poseur doomed for discomfort.

I currently have four inches of drop and I'm seriously considering going back to five since it would seem five gives me less back trouble than four. (And by back trouble I mean after 10 miles warmup I need to stop, stretchmy glutes a bit and be on my way. I really should stretch my glutes more, and hamstrings.) Counter intuitive? Maybe, but there is also a sweet spot when you go low enough where you don't really have to support yourself as much as you would if you were just a little bit higher. But I'll fiddle with my new saddle (fizik antares versus) and see where that gets me. One adjustment at a time.

But my point is that 5 inches of drop for me really is nothing spectacular since I'm 6'5". Nibali is extreme due to the fact that he is only 6' tall and sports six inches of drop. So you know, it all depends.

There was someone on the topic who kindly pointed out that tall head tubes are for fat people. I would like to point out that with the equivalent of 210mm head tube and 5 inches of drop with a normal stem, people who actually think that way can go suck it. Tall head tubes are for normal sized people, short head tubes are for small to tiny people.

Other than that I do believe comfort is something that has become an issue due to the wealth of information around, and of course internet. It has become ok to feel uncomfortable on a bike and it has become something the industry is also targeting. So we are getting new saddles, better frame geometry and all that. But still comfort on a bicycle is an issue in the road world. If you are going to be spending hours and hours on a static platform while exercizing at the same time, getting a comfortable position for that duration really becomes challenging. I could not sit on a sofa for that long without issues.
But comfort on a bike is not really only just about the bike. It takes a lot of effort and work off the bike to be comfortable on the bike. It takes strength training, stretching, multi sport efforts like running or walking to keep your posture good (anterior pelvic tilt anyone`?)

indyfabz

Lots of people did that in my Philly 'hood in the '70s. It made it much easier to pop a wheelie on your Free Spirit 10-speed.

Darth Steele

When I was younger we would just throw on a pair of keds and run like the wind. But now there are more types of running shoes than you can count. Flat feet, wide feet, High arch, different size feet, heel issue. Back then if your feet hurt you just bought larger shoes and manned up.

Now people want shoes that match their foot type, the country has gone soft.


and while I am it, back then who knew about electrolytes? we just drank water. Now people want to replenish their energy and what is lost during sweat, man up people.

prior to the internet we didn't see patterns and there were no way of finding out information in a timely fashion so we didn't care. Now everybody wants to know if something is good or bad for them.

and don't get me started on baby seats and seat belts, come on people HTFU

And what is the this new fangle thing of "hand sanitizer" or putting anti bacterial stuff on cuts? we would just put bubble gum on it and move on.

StanSeven

I've gone through quite a few changes in fitting over the years. My first road bike was a Motobecan and it probably was equivalent to a 59. I'm 6'0" and the saddle and bars were made an inch or so apart. The bike felt like a was driving a huge truck and sat way above the road. It was like cruising along in a big rig but worried if I had to make a quick turn.

The next bike was a Specialized Sirrus in a 58. It s a little better in terms of feel and more like driving a big Cadillac or Lincoln - great for cruising along feeling fat, dumb and happy.

Now years later, I ride a 56 with 4.5 inch saddle to bar drop and it feels much better. It's now like a sports car that goes fast and quick. It's also very comfortable.

The differences are due to the notion of fit at the time.

Jiggle

Give up and quit? Yes. Give up the soda and quit eating so much food.

I'm not even sure they are comfortable. Higher bars means more weight on the butt. I put a ten pound waistpouch on one day and my butt was in agony after only a few miles. It was so bad that I stashed the thing in a ditch and came back for it later in my car.

MattFoley

My Cervelo came with a professional bike fitting, but I've since made several changes, including saddle, stem angle (0 to -6), and removing half the spacers on the steerer. I obviously can feel the difference in reach due to the stem, but that's about it. It's not any less comfortable, even though my saddle is different and not in the exact position at which it was fitted...I don't really understand people who have problems due to millimeter adjustments for little things...I think part of it is the echo chamber of the internet, and part is people blaming issues on fit that really are related to other things.

Fiery

Nibali is a very conservative example. He is 180cm tall, riding a size 56 frame with a 120mm stem. His saddle to bar drop is no larger than 110mm, no matter what BikeRadar/CyclingNews says.

Pedalocity

Yeah, and attitudes like yours will certainly encourage them to make an effort, instead of giving up in fear of being judged by people like you. It's exactly your kind of attitude that drives them away from bikes they might actually enjoy riding and eventually be comfortable on, onto the kind of crappy "comfort bike" riding confined to a MUP that usually leads to quitting.

If they (initially) don't have the flexibility to have their bars very low, then the fit needs to be set up to accommodate their needs as best as possible to balance concerns regarding saddle pain vs. hand, back, shoulder and neck pain. As long as they get out there and ride regularly, making sure to thoroughly ignore attitudes like yours, they will eventually improve their flexibility, core strength, and power output, all of which contribute to increased comfort.

My whole point is that road bikes are actually likely to be the most comfortable option for heavier riders, and the option most likely to encourage keeping at it, provided heavier riders aren't scared away by people like you.

I <3 Robots

Roadies in general whine too much.

Spend some time on a mountain bike.

Campag4life

Actually bike riding is a great way to lose weight. The guy in the video weighed 1200 lbs and now is down to 550 purely by riding in the alley.
Have a look:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzlKcKJZ-_c

pdedes

in order to be a cyclist, one must practice the art of cycling. that takes time that too many well-heeled may not have; time with a bike, time with others that have and dispense knowledge. but the money buys a fantastic bike, a professional fitting, accessories that promise comfort but they forget to buy the time and chase an ephemeral feeling that never comes.
comfort really is a product of experience, of adaptation, of effort and of patience. As a rider with other obligations I miss my younger self that could spend 20-24hrs a week in the saddle. I miss tempo work at 40 km/h. I wish I appreciated the glut of riding time that I had more of then.
At 48, I'm still faster than most, and the comfort I have is a result of the accumulation of years but the comfort I desire could return with those 700km weeks.

StanSeven

And what - you get so stoned there's no more whining?