Thomas DeGent no fan of hookless…
#151
Fat n slow
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Saratoga, NY
Posts: 4,323
Bikes: Cervelo R3, Giant Revolt
Liked 2,105 Times
in
985 Posts
IME, deflations on lower pressure tubeless tyres with sealant are slow and benign. Also very rare. I’ve had 1 in the last 4 years, from a large cut that was too big to self-seal. What happened to TdeG was due to the tyre suddenly coming off the rim, which fortunately I have never experienced on any tyre. I’ve run tubs, clinchers and tubeless setups over the years and tubeless have been the most reliable ie virtually no flats and the easiest by far to repair roadside with a plug kit. I haven’t used “pool noodles” and I don’t think many riders on tubeless use them either. Also never used hookless rims.
#152
Also occasionally had the tell-tale sealant spray on my seat tube from minor punctures at the end of a ride.
#153
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Fargo ND
Posts: 962
Bikes: Time Scylon, Lynskey R350, Ritchey Breakaway, Ritchey Double Switchback, Lynskey Ridgeline, ICAN Fatbike
Liked 583 Times
in
332 Posts
We must have more crap on the roads here in the lesser white north. Last year I had two major cuts and I hit a sugar beet that burped the tire. Sugar beets are the same color as the pavement and they are hard to see at times.
All went flat quickly, leaving me riding at 20 MPH or more on a completely flat tire. None of the cuts left me with a rideable tire. No tube and boot. They went in the bin. None of them came off the rim. The burped tire was reinflated and I finished my ride.
And I have had several punctures that sealed up without going completely flat. Some have been rideable, some needed to be pumped up.
Yes, Dave is a bit of a crank. He doesn't understand physics or math, and he loves his tubular tires. Maybe if I rode on tubulars I would be carrying a spare tire... nope, not going to do it. I bet they can come off the rim in some situations.
#154
I've had several. Three of the original GP5000 TL tires had catastrophic sidewall failures. All of them had a couple thousand miles on the clock. One was a front, the other two were on the rear. None of them came off the rim.
We must have more crap on the roads here in the lesser white north. Last year I had two major cuts and I hit a sugar beet that burped the tire. Sugar beets are the same color as the pavement and they are hard to see at times.
All went flat quickly, leaving me riding at 20 MPH or more on a completely flat tire. None of the cuts left me with a rideable tire. No tube and boot. They went in the bin. None of them came off the rim. The burped tire was reinflated and I finished my ride.
And I have had several punctures that sealed up without going completely flat. Some have been rideable, some needed to be pumped up.
Yes, Dave is a bit of a crank. He doesn't understand physics or math, and he loves his tubular tires. Maybe if I rode on tubulars I would be carrying a spare tire... nope, not going to do it. I bet they can come off the rim in some situations.
We must have more crap on the roads here in the lesser white north. Last year I had two major cuts and I hit a sugar beet that burped the tire. Sugar beets are the same color as the pavement and they are hard to see at times.
All went flat quickly, leaving me riding at 20 MPH or more on a completely flat tire. None of the cuts left me with a rideable tire. No tube and boot. They went in the bin. None of them came off the rim. The burped tire was reinflated and I finished my ride.
And I have had several punctures that sealed up without going completely flat. Some have been rideable, some needed to be pumped up.
Yes, Dave is a bit of a crank. He doesn't understand physics or math, and he loves his tubular tires. Maybe if I rode on tubulars I would be carrying a spare tire... nope, not going to do it. I bet they can come off the rim in some situations.
Likes For PeteHski:
#155
Senior Member
Zipp and Vittoria both make tubular options that are available to De Gent’s team and would still be “sponsor correct”. Teams aren’t running tubeless as a marketing ploy. They’re running tubeless because they think it gives them the best chance of winning bike races.
It’s weird to me that the same people claiming tubeless tires are dangerous also think pros railing hairpin corners down rainy alpine descents are totally fine running cork rim brake pads on carbon wheels.
It’s weird to me that the same people claiming tubeless tires are dangerous also think pros railing hairpin corners down rainy alpine descents are totally fine running cork rim brake pads on carbon wheels.
#156
Here:
Tubeless/hookless for performance road cycling is for marketing, manufacturer cost savings and creating proprietary tire/wheel combos that attempt to lock the consumer to the original sale vendor. Just because the marketing propaganda says they are on a certain trendy tire/wheel combo doesn't mean that they are actually being used in competition. Particularly during the critical climbing stages.
And it helps keep a few of the shrill industry influencers on this forum in beer money.
I have 50 bikes to get ready for a spring opening, including hydraulics and di2. The misery of feeding hydraulic lines and mechanical cables/housing though an integrated frameset explains part of the Youtube video question as to why modern high-end so bikes so expensive. It takes a lot of time to set up this stuff. Adding pool noodles and slime and inflating tubeless just adds even more time and costs.
It also helps lock the consumer into a shop because your average weekend warrior used to be able to replace rim brake pads and shift housing and fix a flat. No longer. We have an increasing influx of folks coming into see us to: "borrow an air compressor".
Tubeless/hookless for performance road cycling is for marketing, manufacturer cost savings and creating proprietary tire/wheel combos that attempt to lock the consumer to the original sale vendor. Just because the marketing propaganda says they are on a certain trendy tire/wheel combo doesn't mean that they are actually being used in competition. Particularly during the critical climbing stages.
And it helps keep a few of the shrill industry influencers on this forum in beer money.
I have 50 bikes to get ready for a spring opening, including hydraulics and di2. The misery of feeding hydraulic lines and mechanical cables/housing though an integrated frameset explains part of the Youtube video question as to why modern high-end so bikes so expensive. It takes a lot of time to set up this stuff. Adding pool noodles and slime and inflating tubeless just adds even more time and costs.
It also helps lock the consumer into a shop because your average weekend warrior used to be able to replace rim brake pads and shift housing and fix a flat. No longer. We have an increasing influx of folks coming into see us to: "borrow an air compressor".
#157
Zipp and Vittoria both make tubular options that are available to De Gent’s team and would still be “sponsor correct”. Teams aren’t running tubeless as a marketing ploy. They’re running tubeless because they think it gives them the best chance of winning bike races.
It’s weird to me that the same people claiming tubeless tires are dangerous also think pros railing hairpin corners down rainy alpine descents are totally fine running cork rim brake pads on carbon wheels.
It’s weird to me that the same people claiming tubeless tires are dangerous also think pros railing hairpin corners down rainy alpine descents are totally fine running cork rim brake pads on carbon wheels.
Meanwhile the pro teams are only interested in whatever is actually fastest. Of course they have individual sponsorship obligations but the top teams are usually sponsored by top tier brand gear anyway. Being forced to ride the latest S-Works or Cervelo on Conti or Vitoria tyres is very unlikely to be a major compromise in performance! As you point out, they are free to use tubulars if they prefer them, but they rarely do now. We see them occasionally on high mountain stages, but less and less each year.
#158
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,496
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Liked 8,298 Times
in
3,298 Posts
I have 50 bikes to get ready for a spring opening, including hydraulics and di2. The misery of feeding hydraulic lines and mechanical cables/housing though an integrated frameset explains part of the Youtube video question as to why modern high-end so bikes so expensive. It takes a lot of time to set up this stuff. Adding pool noodles and slime and inflating tubeless just adds even more time and costs.
Likes For tomato coupe:
#159
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 19,349
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Liked 13,198 Times
in
6,776 Posts
Here:
Peak Torque on Bike Marketing, Real World Aero Savings and Hookless Dangers (youtube.com)
Tubeless/hookless for performance road cycling is for marketing, manufacturer cost savings and creating proprietary tire/wheel combos that attempt to lock the consumer to the original sale vendor. Just because the marketing propaganda says they are on a certain trendy tire/wheel combo doesn't mean that they are actually being used in competition. Particularly during the critical climbing stages.
And it helps keep a few of the shrill industry influencers on this forum in beer money.
I have 50 bikes to get ready for a spring opening, including hydraulics and di2. The misery of feeding hydraulic lines and mechanical cables/housing though an integrated frameset explains part of the Youtube video question as to why modern high-end so bikes so expensive. It takes a lot of time to set up this stuff. Adding pool noodles and slime and inflating tubeless just adds even more time and costs.
It also helps lock the consumer into a shop because your average weekend warrior used to be able to replace rim brake pads and shift housing and fix a flat. No longer. We have an increasing influx of folks coming into see us to: "borrow an air compressor".
Peak Torque on Bike Marketing, Real World Aero Savings and Hookless Dangers (youtube.com)
Tubeless/hookless for performance road cycling is for marketing, manufacturer cost savings and creating proprietary tire/wheel combos that attempt to lock the consumer to the original sale vendor. Just because the marketing propaganda says they are on a certain trendy tire/wheel combo doesn't mean that they are actually being used in competition. Particularly during the critical climbing stages.
And it helps keep a few of the shrill industry influencers on this forum in beer money.
I have 50 bikes to get ready for a spring opening, including hydraulics and di2. The misery of feeding hydraulic lines and mechanical cables/housing though an integrated frameset explains part of the Youtube video question as to why modern high-end so bikes so expensive. It takes a lot of time to set up this stuff. Adding pool noodles and slime and inflating tubeless just adds even more time and costs.
It also helps lock the consumer into a shop because your average weekend warrior used to be able to replace rim brake pads and shift housing and fix a flat. No longer. We have an increasing influx of folks coming into see us to: "borrow an air compressor".
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
#160
Yeah if they were all secretly racing tubulars then there would be no backlash against hookless rims. We know that a few riders still use tubulars occasionally on big mountain stages, but it’s getting pretty rare now. Tubeless is now by far the primary choice.
#161
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Fargo ND
Posts: 962
Bikes: Time Scylon, Lynskey R350, Ritchey Breakaway, Ritchey Double Switchback, Lynskey Ridgeline, ICAN Fatbike
Liked 583 Times
in
332 Posts
The original GP5000 TL did have a reputation for fragile sidewalls. Something they improved with the current spec S TR. But if you are looking for something much less fragile and only a little slower, then I can recommend Pirelli Cinturato Velos. Those are pretty bombproof and ride well.
I keep coming back to GP5000 tires because... because I like them. Haven't tried the Pirellis yet. I hope I have tires lined up for 2024, 28mm GP5000 S TR are on the shelf ready to go on the Scylon and 32mm GP5000 TL are on the tandem. Only the 25mm had failing sidewalls under me.
We wore the first set of 32mm GP5000 TL on the tandem down to the cords with no problems. Put a second set on and have a third on the shelf in the cold dark garage.
One aside, when I put the GP5000 tires on the tandem, the first ride Mrs. Dan wanted to know what I had done to make the bike so much more stable in corners and comfortable to ride. Easy answer; I put the Marathon on the shelf and put on GP5000.
#162
Fat n slow
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Saratoga, NY
Posts: 4,323
Bikes: Cervelo R3, Giant Revolt
Liked 2,105 Times
in
985 Posts
Here:
Peak Torque on Bike Marketing, Real World Aero Savings and Hookless Dangers (youtube.com)
Tubeless/hookless for performance road cycling is for marketing, manufacturer cost savings and creating proprietary tire/wheel combos that attempt to lock the consumer to the original sale vendor. Just because the marketing propaganda says they are on a certain trendy tire/wheel combo doesn't mean that they are actually being used in competition. Particularly during the critical climbing stages.
And it helps keep a few of the shrill industry influencers on this forum in beer
It also helps lock the consumer into a shop because your average weekend warrior used to be able to replace rim brake pads and shift housing and fix a flat. No longer. We have an increasing influx of folks coming into see us to: "borrow an air compressor".
Peak Torque on Bike Marketing, Real World Aero Savings and Hookless Dangers (youtube.com)
Tubeless/hookless for performance road cycling is for marketing, manufacturer cost savings and creating proprietary tire/wheel combos that attempt to lock the consumer to the original sale vendor. Just because the marketing propaganda says they are on a certain trendy tire/wheel combo doesn't mean that they are actually being used in competition. Particularly during the critical climbing stages.
And it helps keep a few of the shrill industry influencers on this forum in beer
It also helps lock the consumer into a shop because your average weekend warrior used to be able to replace rim brake pads and shift housing and fix a flat. No longer. We have an increasing influx of folks coming into see us to: "borrow an air compressor".
With a hookless compatible tire I can seat just about anything with a crappy Blackburn track pump I bought in 2012.
Also, as a relatively mechanically inept idiot I was able to build up a fully internal bike, bleed the brakes, etc watching a few YouTube videos. It actually took longer to get the FD set up than to run brake hoses through the frame, stem and bars. It can’t be that bad for a trained mechanic.
Likes For phrantic09:
#163
One of the cut tires was a Vittoria Corsa, as was the burped tire. The other cut tire was a Goodyear Eagle. The Corsa just isn't as nice as the GP5000. The Eagle seemed like a good tire.My riding covers a lot of roads that are crossed by gravel roads and I suspect that one of the cuts came from a sharp piece of gravel. The other was definitely a broken dark brown beer bottle.
I keep coming back to GP5000 tires because... because I like them. Haven't tried the Pirellis yet. I hope I have tires lined up for 2024, 28mm GP5000 S TR are on the shelf ready to go on the Scylon and 32mm GP5000 TL are on the tandem. Only the 25mm had failing sidewalls under me.
We wore the first set of 32mm GP5000 TL on the tandem down to the cords with no problems. Put a second set on and have a third on the shelf in the cold dark garage.
One aside, when I put the GP5000 tires on the tandem, the first ride Mrs. Dan wanted to know what I had done to make the bike so much more stable in corners and comfortable to ride. Easy answer; I put the Marathon on the shelf and put on GP5000.
I keep coming back to GP5000 tires because... because I like them. Haven't tried the Pirellis yet. I hope I have tires lined up for 2024, 28mm GP5000 S TR are on the shelf ready to go on the Scylon and 32mm GP5000 TL are on the tandem. Only the 25mm had failing sidewalls under me.
We wore the first set of 32mm GP5000 TL on the tandem down to the cords with no problems. Put a second set on and have a third on the shelf in the cold dark garage.
One aside, when I put the GP5000 tires on the tandem, the first ride Mrs. Dan wanted to know what I had done to make the bike so much more stable in corners and comfortable to ride. Easy answer; I put the Marathon on the shelf and put on GP5000.
#164
climber has-been
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,510
Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1
Liked 4,058 Times
in
1,999 Posts
BTW, the UCI is now looking into hookless rims with tubeless tires, "with a view to reaching a decision".
If the UCI bans their use, watch hookless road rims disappear quickly from the market.
Good riddance.
If the UCI bans their use, watch hookless road rims disappear quickly from the market.
Good riddance.
#165
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,496
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Liked 8,298 Times
in
3,298 Posts
BTW, the UCI is now looking into hookless rims with tubeless tires, "with a view to reaching a decision".
If the UCI bans their use, watch hookless road rims disappear quickly from the market.
If the UCI bans their use, watch hookless road rims disappear quickly from the market.
#166
climber has-been
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,510
Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1
Liked 4,058 Times
in
1,999 Posts
#167
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,496
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Liked 8,298 Times
in
3,298 Posts
Likes For tomato coupe:
#168
Senior Member
BTW, the UCI is now looking into hookless rims with tubeless tires, "with a view to reaching a decision".
If the UCI bans their use, watch hookless road rims disappear quickly from the market.
Good riddance.
If the UCI bans their use, watch hookless road rims disappear quickly from the market.
Good riddance.
#169
Senior Member
So if the UCI bans them, does that mean that hookless is "getting the hook?"
Last edited by seypat; 03-02-24 at 02:19 PM.
Likes For seypat:
#170
-------
Wait you run / work in a shop? I bet your customers love you… you think so highly of them.
With a hookless compatible tire I can seat just about anything with a crappy Blackburn track pump I bought in 2012.
Also, as a relatively mechanically inept idiot I was able to build up a fully internal bike, bleed the brakes, etc watching a few YouTube videos. It actually took longer to get the FD set up than to run brake hoses through the frame, stem and bars. It can’t be that bad for a trained mechanic.
With a hookless compatible tire I can seat just about anything with a crappy Blackburn track pump I bought in 2012.
Also, as a relatively mechanically inept idiot I was able to build up a fully internal bike, bleed the brakes, etc watching a few YouTube videos. It actually took longer to get the FD set up than to run brake hoses through the frame, stem and bars. It can’t be that bad for a trained mechanic.
There is nothing on a disc/internal routing bike that requires a degree in rocket science. It just takes some patience and a little time to learn some tricks. Bikes, no matter how expensive and trendy are not F1 cars or moon shots.
#171
I subject this to my 50mph razor.
If I was going downhill at 50mph, would I wish my rims were hooked or hookless? And I am going to go with hooked, but looking forward with safety data from early adapters.
If I was going downhill at 50mph, would I wish my rims were hooked or hookless? And I am going to go with hooked, but looking forward with safety data from early adapters.
#172
Fat n slow
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Saratoga, NY
Posts: 4,323
Bikes: Cervelo R3, Giant Revolt
Liked 2,105 Times
in
985 Posts
Have you ridden that bike yet? I'll bet it falls into pieces the moment you leave your garage.
There is nothing on a disc/internal routing bike that requires a degree in rocket science. It just takes some patience and a little time to learn some tricks. Bikes, no matter how expensive and trendy are not F1 cars or moon shots.
There is nothing on a disc/internal routing bike that requires a degree in rocket science. It just takes some patience and a little time to learn some tricks. Bikes, no matter how expensive and trendy are not F1 cars or moon shots.
#174
-------
#175
Senior Member