Giro

But not for very long! David Gordon Wilson's Bicycling Science 3rd edition page 44 has a graph of maximum sustainable power in watts versus duration in minutes. Top world class cyclists, with Eddy Merckx (5 time Tour de France winner) being the closest data point, have maintained 500 watts for 50 minutes.

Closer to us mortals, the NASA range for healthy men is 500 watts for between about 45" to 3 minutes maximum. 750 watts for NASA's healthy man curve is about 30 seconds maximum.

Edit: I should note that the watts in the legislation may refer to watts of electricity used by the motor rather than watts produced by the motor and available to move the bicycle. I'm sure others have some figures for the efficiency of the electric motor and drive train. My guess is it is less than 90% but hopefully more than 40%. In that case, the 500 watt electric bicycle would not keep up with Merckx for a 50 minute race on the flat without some assist by pedaling.

mike-on-da-bike

ummm it is all that bad carrying a adult rider along with 2 lead acid batteries and the wieght of the bike itself i can walk up a hill faster

stokell

I’ve waited a couple of days for Digikid to post his/her conflict of interest information.

I own an e-bike which was recently stolen. I’m building up a new one for the spring. I have no interest in any business that sells, rents, imports or otherwise deals with electric bikes and / or electric scooters.

In my work life I am a trainer.

Digikid

Stokell....you want proof? We have already given it to you. Stop be an elitest and look at the links that Golectric has posted....THERE is your proof.

Google helps out as well. I will NOT do your work for you.

stokell

Obfuscation will not help you. You obviously have an axe to grind, so be open about it.

What is your connection with the industry and who do you work for?

I did it, you can too.

arni0202

Obfuscation .... good word!

stokell

yeh, I looked it up in Google. (If I knew how to do it, I'd insert a smiley here.)

Digikid

I work for no one associated for the Ebike industry. I am a simple living person and am just trying to show you the error of your elitest ways.

I am a Computer Technician.....thats all.

See my motto though? Learn it as I never ever relent to anyone or anything that is incorrect such as the drivel that you are trying to spread around.

There is nothing confusing about it at all bud. Quite the opposite actually.

Veloteq

Regarding the Federal Laws regulating electric bicycles, and their definition, there is no confusion of the part of Transport Canada. It was their intention at the beginning to give leeway with regard to the form factor of ebikes, as long as they comply with the speed criteria, in order to allow for developing technologies. They reiterated their prior position in the Canada Gazette in April, 2006, because of confusion resulting in Ontario after the commencement of the Pilot Program. Ontario does not have a sole stake in the laws regulating ebikes. The Veloteq type ebikes have been sold in B.C. and Quebec for years, since 2002 in B.C., and there is no call their for changes. The arguments making reference to weight are somewhat meaningless. What, really, is the difference between a 160 lb person riding a 160 lb ebike and a 260 lb person riding a 60 lb bicycle? Which would you rather be hit by? The ebike is likely easier to control with the light rider than the bicycle with a heavy or overweight rider. The braking systems are better and the swerve better at higher speed appoaching 32 kmh.

stokell

Is this fact or speculation? If it is fact, please show your supporting information.

Digikid

www.google.com

EDIT: Okay maybe posting that was a little rude but I believe that if you cannot find this information then why should we do it for you? This Veloteq person is probably from Veloteq and maybe he CANNOT give you that information freely. If that is the case then yes I would be a little wary as well. But let me ask you this.....if you were in Veloteqs position....what would YOU say?

Is it just POSSIBLE, Stokell, that you are misinterpreting this a little? ( sorry for the mispell there. ) Just asking.

karma

im not taking any sides but last summer i hit a patch of loose dirt on the road and droped my 200+ izip loaded with led acid. the pedals got me in the back of the Ackles. i couldent walk for 2 weeks. also lost 2 weeks pay. anyway all im saying is no one really cares about the weight until thay loose control than it gets there attention its not like just falling off a bicycle its like falling off a sportbike and it lands on you.trust me i speek from Experience




cheers

electrogreen

and veloteq, others with strong ops on this post have volunteer'd to say if they work in the ebike biz.



It just makes your case a bit stronger if we know your not saying it for $.

karma

heh i dont think stokell going hurt veloteqs sales any. with the new 2008 models coming out with the new
PowerEagle GT motor im tempted to buy one could always use a second bike.

Abneycat

Now *this* is misinterpretation. How about a 260lb person riding a 160lb ebike? Don't skew your arguements.

Golectric

Not as skewed as you are leading people to believe Abneycat

Electric bikes are limited to 500 watts so as you increase weight the speed will decrease. A 250 lbs rider will have a slower top speed then a 150lbs rider therefor the actual kinetic energy will remain close to the same. Kinetic energy increase's exponetialy with speed and this is fact. There are so many different factors to consider. What about the open frame bike loaded with an extra 75lbs in sadlebag's?

Abneycat

You're a real spinster. https://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm

The difference in that case, on flat ground, is negligible at around 1-2kph depending on vehicle. On a downhill slope, your comparison works against your favour. The only considerable difference additional weight presents is on an uphill slope where speeds are considerably lower *overall*

A laden touring frame would still only be 105lbs with those extra 75lbs. And once again you ignore the fact that with those extra 75lbs, the Veloteq would weigh 235-245lbs before rider.

If you want to come on here and present points in favour of your product (which as you've admitted, you're a dealer), I find that acceptable. But present your case in a manner like this and you're not going to be taken very seriously.

Golectric

Just trying to keep things based on fact and not personal feelings. Did you ever wonder if riding a heavier bike could actually be safer then riding a lighter bike in some instances?

Abneycat

I'm sorry. When you base your argument upon justifying a constant (vehicle weight) with a variable (rider weight, cargo), then what you're doing is basing things on bull excrement, not facts.

As having been an owner of both an e-bike and an Xtracycle (as both a regular and e-bike cargo bike), I happen to have experience with both the weight of an open frame e-bike, and an extremely laden vehicle, and cannot think of a single instance where the additional weight is an asset. I can think of many situations however, where it is *not* an asset. My statement is based upon such, and reflects true riding experience in a myriad of situations. I have no affiliation with any brand, group, product, nothing, and my conclusions are simply based upon facts:

Increased weight, decreased drivetrain efficiency, inferior "cycling" design. This is not an opinion. The *constant* weight value of a Veloteq varies from 165-175lbs based on model, fact. The drivetrain does not provide the same gear ratio as for instance, my Xtracycle with a 44/32/22 crankset and 11-32 gearset, fact. The pedaling stance is, as reported by various users, too wide. This is the basis behind my conclusion.

Please don't speak of personal feelings when you're obviously not an impartial source of information.

Golectric

Have you ridden a Veloteq? Latley

Veloteq

Please take note of the introductory paragraph from the Backgrounder regarding power-assisted bicycles, issued by Transport Canada in April 2007. We do not know for certain, but suspect that MOT may have gone to Transport Canada for clarification with regard the Federal ebike definition. We talk with the same people in Ottawa that they do, and have had only good relations with them for about five years. Please note below that TC states, "a combination of the cyclist and a motor or by the motor power alone". They also went on the clarify that previously they were classified as limited-speed motorcycles.TC created the term "power-assisted bicycle" deliberately to include both the power-on-demand, scooter type, and the power-assisted bicycle type. They determined factors relevant to speed, their primary criterion, and determined the amount of electrical motive power required to maintain that speed by a 170 lb rider on a dry, level surface. That is where the 500W figure came from.

Veloteqs, equipped with our 750W motor and without the limiter, are capable of 26-28 mph, far in excess of the speed permitted for power-assisted bicycles in Canada. This is why we do not ship the 750W models to Canada.
Earlier, it was thought that the use of a 750W motor would enable the bikes to better surmount steep inclines. We solved that problem by changing to a gear-reduction motor which, although rated at 500W, is capable of climbing all hills intended for vehicular traffic. There is some sacrifice of range when using this type of motor, however since most trips are quite short, this can be dealt with by more frequent charging of the batteries.

All new technologies take time to implement. Everyone in the electric vehicle business thas been looking for the magic bullet, THE battery that will weight the least, and store and return the most power. We are continuing our development of a new power supply, a project in which we have been engaged with the same R&D company for over a year. They are on track and so are we. The power supply is to the point where it is being tested at our facility. Assuming that all goes well, we will have them on the market in the third quarter of 2008. The new power supply will enable us to reduce the weight of our ebikes by about 45 lbs., decrease the recharge time, enable many more recharges, and is totally non-polluting. They are not made from the much talked about, but seldom seen, Lithium Iron Phospate batteries. Those appear to be still only in the pre-production stage of development, but that is another subject.

"In 2001, Transport Canada amended the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations to allow the introduction of power-assisted bicycles in Canada. Power-assisted bicycles are electric bicycles propelled by either a combination of the cyclist and a motor or by the motor alone. Previously, these bicycles were classified as limited-speed motorcycles; however, they did not meet the safety standards for limited-speed motorcycles, and were therefore not for sale in Canada." (Source, Transport Canada Backgrounder-Canada Gazette, April 2006)

The point is that the Federal Government knew from the beginning that new technologies would appear and did not want the form factor to be in the way of them. As much as possible, their aim is to get people out of their cars and onto some other form of transportation.

Veloteq

The braking systems on the Veloteqs are automotive grade drum brakes with large ceramic brake shoes. The brakes on the vast majority of step-through bikes are simply caliper brakes made of rubber.

Step-through bikes are, by design, top heavy. The primary load is the rider, sitting atop a seat. This requires the rider lean to the side to compensate while swerving. Swerving is a term describing the action of using weight to make or assist turning. In the case of the Veloteq ebikes, the center of gravity is low because of the location of the power supply, under the deck below the rider's feet. Because of this the rider does not have to lean dangerously in order to perfrom a swerve.

electrogreen

With all do respect, stockell asked you to quote sources. What you say makes some logic, but we each have opinion. This still seems to me as opinion. My profs tell me to provide support when writing papers. I don't see it.

Digikid

We could say the same for you Electrogreen.

electrogreen

"we"? who is we? Are you speaking for someone else other than yourself?


Also, if you mean I haven't come clean, then allow me now

I'm an undergrad in engineering with an intrest in sustainable transportation. I own a e-bike I built myself from parts. I mostly pedal.