Klein Built Cannondale??
#1
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Klein Built Cannondale??
Anybody seen this??
https://www.ebay.com/itm/283388397210
Klein built a "prototype" for Cannondale?
I can't believe it for a second..............Gary Klein sued Cannondale over patent infringement.
So, why would he build them a "prototype?"
I have inquired as to a serial # on this bike.
ST frames/bikes emerged in 1983,
The SR geometry frames didn't hit the market til '85
I own an '85 with the same paint and decals as the one in the auction.
We'll see.........
https://www.ebay.com/itm/283388397210
Klein built a "prototype" for Cannondale?
I can't believe it for a second..............Gary Klein sued Cannondale over patent infringement.
So, why would he build them a "prototype?"
I have inquired as to a serial # on this bike.
ST frames/bikes emerged in 1983,
The SR geometry frames didn't hit the market til '85
I own an '85 with the same paint and decals as the one in the auction.
We'll see.........
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#7
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I think you meant to post in the Wacky World of Craigslist and EBay ads thread!
#8
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Anybody seen this??
https://www.ebay.com/itm/283388397210
Klein built a "prototype" for Cannondale?
I can't believe it for a second..............Gary Klein sued Cannondale over patent infringement.
So, why would he build them a "prototype?"
I have inquired as to a serial # on this bike.
ST frames/bikes emerged in 1983,
The SR geometry frames didn't hit the market til '85
I own an '85 with the same paint and decals as the one in the auction.
We'll see.........
https://www.ebay.com/itm/283388397210
Klein built a "prototype" for Cannondale?
I can't believe it for a second..............Gary Klein sued Cannondale over patent infringement.
So, why would he build them a "prototype?"
I have inquired as to a serial # on this bike.
ST frames/bikes emerged in 1983,
The SR geometry frames didn't hit the market til '85
I own an '85 with the same paint and decals as the one in the auction.
We'll see.........
No model number=warranty frame; silver fork=crash damage. It doesn't look much like a prototype, but a production item.
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Man, those seat stays are just scary! Doesn't ebay have rules about selling unsafe items. I never mess with ebay, so not familiar. 🤔
#10
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#11
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I wonder if this is indeed a Klein built bike intended either as one of bikes Klein would build for Cannondale (like Giant does now for the rest of the world) or to interest Cannondale in paying for the rights to the patents. Perhaps Cannondale, after taking a few spins on that bike, decided to just make the bikes and turn their back on Klein.
That bike sure looks like a Klein of the time. I never owned one but I regularly stopped in at Open Air Cycling in Boston when I was back east to see my folks. They carried Kleins from the late '70s until they closed. I regularly saw the newest Kleins for years before I ever saw or heard of a Cannondale.
Fun bit: I took a spin on a Klein in 1976, Gary Klein showed up at an NEBC Thursday night club race and encouraged us all to do so. I knew immediately that bike was going to change the cycling world. When Cannondale claimed their bike was something new 5-6 years later, I just shook my head. "Yes, but it wasn't your idea."
Edit: as I recall, not all Kleins had matching paint on their forks. PRobably to emphasis the frame was of a different material. (Proceeding the carbon forks on aluminum and steel bikes by a decade or so.) That fork doesn't strike my memory as being either "wrong" or a replacement.
Ben
That bike sure looks like a Klein of the time. I never owned one but I regularly stopped in at Open Air Cycling in Boston when I was back east to see my folks. They carried Kleins from the late '70s until they closed. I regularly saw the newest Kleins for years before I ever saw or heard of a Cannondale.
Fun bit: I took a spin on a Klein in 1976, Gary Klein showed up at an NEBC Thursday night club race and encouraged us all to do so. I knew immediately that bike was going to change the cycling world. When Cannondale claimed their bike was something new 5-6 years later, I just shook my head. "Yes, but it wasn't your idea."
Edit: as I recall, not all Kleins had matching paint on their forks. PRobably to emphasis the frame was of a different material. (Proceeding the carbon forks on aluminum and steel bikes by a decade or so.) That fork doesn't strike my memory as being either "wrong" or a replacement.
Ben
Last edited by 79pmooney; 01-16-20 at 11:23 AM.
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#13
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...I live not too far from Lincoln, CA, and I never heard of this guy before. There are a lot of pretty nice Cannondale's locally at bargain prices these days, so it's difficult to understand why anyone would bother to attempt to sell this one given its precarious rear end arrangements. Sorry, but I cannot contribute anything of value on whether it was made by Klein.
...I live not too far from Lincoln, CA, and I never heard of this guy before. There are a lot of pretty nice Cannondale's locally at bargain prices these days, so it's difficult to understand why anyone would bother to attempt to sell this one given its precarious rear end arrangements. Sorry, but I cannot contribute anything of value on whether it was made by Klein.
#14
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Editorial Comment On Sellers
Can you say BULL PUCKY?
Some eBay sellers who don't know, or weren't there, frequently guess or "embroider" information in their listings!
A lot of them are "pickers", yard sailors or pawn shops. Folks figuring on making a fast buck flipping stuff. This seller's handle is "California Bike Pickers" that should tell you a lot....
We sold Klein frames back in the mid 70's and had some of the first ones to hit the market so we knew a lot of the developmental history. Cannodale frames were contemporaries of Klein and maybe came a little later.
The one thing that I remember was that the Klein frames were BRUTALLY STIFF! Some of the early ones had boron carbide??? fibers epoxied to the bottom bracket area to increase stiffness.
It's been almost 45 years and I never cared much for the oversized aluminum frames so I might be wrong about this but the weld beads on the early Kleins were not smoothed so they looked crude.
I'm always suspicious of resprays on eBay and CL. Paint can hide a multitude of sins.
With the exception of work done by recognized restorers like Cycleart, Brian Bayless and so on, bikes that have been repainted always send up a red flag for me if I can't inspect them in person.
Just like frames and bikes that don't have the original fork! WHY?
What happened to the fork that resulted in replacement?
BTW, I think that the replacement fork is from a Vitus frame???
The welding on the seat stays looks really cobby like it was done by an amateur!
Caveat emptor!
verktyg
ADDENDUM:
Took a close look at the frame in question... It appears that someone put indentations into the chain stays for crank arm clearance rather than install a wider BB spindle. Prime area for failure, especially in aluminum!
Fine example of the work of a ham fisted hammer mechanic!
.
Some eBay sellers who don't know, or weren't there, frequently guess or "embroider" information in their listings!
A lot of them are "pickers", yard sailors or pawn shops. Folks figuring on making a fast buck flipping stuff. This seller's handle is "California Bike Pickers" that should tell you a lot....
We sold Klein frames back in the mid 70's and had some of the first ones to hit the market so we knew a lot of the developmental history. Cannodale frames were contemporaries of Klein and maybe came a little later.
The one thing that I remember was that the Klein frames were BRUTALLY STIFF! Some of the early ones had boron carbide??? fibers epoxied to the bottom bracket area to increase stiffness.
It's been almost 45 years and I never cared much for the oversized aluminum frames so I might be wrong about this but the weld beads on the early Kleins were not smoothed so they looked crude.
I'm always suspicious of resprays on eBay and CL. Paint can hide a multitude of sins.
With the exception of work done by recognized restorers like Cycleart, Brian Bayless and so on, bikes that have been repainted always send up a red flag for me if I can't inspect them in person.
Just like frames and bikes that don't have the original fork! WHY?
What happened to the fork that resulted in replacement?
BTW, I think that the replacement fork is from a Vitus frame???
The welding on the seat stays looks really cobby like it was done by an amateur!
Caveat emptor!
verktyg
ADDENDUM:
Took a close look at the frame in question... It appears that someone put indentations into the chain stays for crank arm clearance rather than install a wider BB spindle. Prime area for failure, especially in aluminum!
Fine example of the work of a ham fisted hammer mechanic!
.
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Last edited by verktyg; 01-16-20 at 12:11 PM.
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#15
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My Cycleart repaint with a steel fork.
...even with the touring model wheelbase and stay length, it's a little stiff unless you max out the tyre widths.
There are a couple of genuinely bargain priced Klein bikes on the local CL right now. Too stiff for my old ass.
There are a couple of genuinely bargain priced Klein bikes on the local CL right now. Too stiff for my old ass.
#16
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Garden variety Cannondale SR frame from 1985-86. I see nothing to indicate it's anything other than that.
With a mixed bag of components in very poor condition and a bunch of rear end damage.
With a mixed bag of components in very poor condition and a bunch of rear end damage.
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#17
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verktyg
ADDENDUM:
Took a close look at the frame in question... It appears that someone put indentations into the chain stays for crank arm clearance rather than install a wider BB spindle. Prime area for failure, especially in aluminum!
Fine example of the work of a ham fisted hammer mechanic!
.
#18
Senior Member
Looks like a regular Cannondale to me as well. The damage to the right chainstay and left seatstay etc make this frame worthless.
In theory it could be repaired if (maybe) one was willing to replace the damaged stays (and whatever else) and properly heat treat the whole thing. And then repaint. Since the cost to do that would far exceed the value of a Cannondale frame in un-trashed condition, obviously it would make no sense. Therefore, it is toast.
In theory it could be repaired if (maybe) one was willing to replace the damaged stays (and whatever else) and properly heat treat the whole thing. And then repaint. Since the cost to do that would far exceed the value of a Cannondale frame in un-trashed condition, obviously it would make no sense. Therefore, it is toast.
#19
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Posting the good pics here. Oof!
They were definitely too lazy to toss the frame and part the rest out.
They were definitely too lazy to toss the frame and part the rest out.
#20
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#21
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Kind of like BBC
https://budgetbicyclectr.com/vintage...-for-sale.html
https://budgetbicyclectr.com/vintage...-for-sale.html
https://budgetbicyclectr.com/vintage...icycle-22.html
$18000 is the closeout price. I get that an old stumpy, but it isn't even a first year model.
#22
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Took a close look at the frame in question... It appears that someone put indentations into the chain stays for crank arm clearance rather than install a wider BB spindle. Prime area for failure, especially in aluminum!
Fine example of the work of a ham fisted hammer mechanic
Fine example of the work of a ham fisted hammer mechanic
They just look like the normal dimples to me.
#24
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What I learned from this thread: ugly and broken costs $845.75 in Lincoln, California. Maybe.
DD
DD
#25
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Look at the pictures again, post #20 . Its the non-drive side seat stay. Looks like someone dropped an anvil on it and then VERY crudely rewelded it back on to the drop out. Chain stay dimples are normal.
I didn't see the damaged stay either the first time I looked at this thread.