rsbob 

Where do you recommend placing your body weight, or does it vary on the duration of the climb? I put a lot of weight on the bars to support my torso with my hands near the brifters. Or does it make more sense to grab the tops of the bar, near the stem, and thus shifting the weight into the pedals and only holding onto the tops for balance? Or does it vary? Inquiring minds want to know.

datlas 

Not to be a smartass, but body weight goes on the pedals. I once read many years ago, to not bring your chest PAST your bars (i.e. don't come too far forward). Hold on to the hoods, the bike should rock slightly below your body.

Also, with rare exceptions (Contador) most of us are less efficient while standing, so don't do it for too long or you may get tuckered out.

zandoval 

When I used to be able to climb out of the saddle I had my hands on the hoods and my chest over the bars. Of course its been more then a long time...

Mojo31

I once read that you should not grip the tops when out of the saddle. Too easy to loose balance/control.

seypat

This. Going too far forward shifts a lot of weight onto the front axle/wheel. Next thing you know, you'll be checking to see if you have a tire flatting or a brake dragging. As datlas stated, it looks cool/Pro, but not the most efficient way to climb for most of us.

spelger

i think if you put too much body weight on the bars then that force is only beign used to support your body and not apply force to propel yourself up the hill. when oos i hold the hoods almost exclusively and am generally only holding to balance. i'll apply a death grip if i am pulling my self up a hill quickly though.

79pmooney

I heard that long ago. Never gave it thought. I come far forward and pull hard, especially climbing in big gears. Allows me to pull hard on the upstroke and save my quads a little. Yeah, I know that's all wrong. And yes, I am nowhere near as fast as I once was so maybe it's that poor climbing style, not my age. For me, pushing back and weighting the pedals simply isn't doing what my body does so well.

On tire pressure - I run my fronts 5 psi lower than the rear. Plenty hard enough to cope with that added weight. Been doing that 50 years.

Fredo76

If I recall correctly [cue fog machine]...

First of all this is a bigger gear, lower cadence style of climbing, usually with the hands on the brake hoods. Keeping your weight over the pedals, it can range in intensity from a maximum we called 'jamming', actually pulling up on the brake hood opposite the driving leg while pushing down on the other to keep handlebar side-to-side motion controlled, adding additional force to your weight on the downstroke while also pulling up hard with the calves and hamstrings of the opposite leg. That intense effort was how people got up short hills, in the same gear that they just went down one, without shifting or spinning. The other extreme was 'dancing on the pedals', characterized by a gentle rocking while riding a straight line, with your head comparatively still, using mostly your unassisted weight applied to the pedals, while moving fluidly at a natural frequency. Neither is particularly inefficient mechanically, but the former can be near maximum energy expenditure. Hands on the outsides of the tops is ok for stretching for a moment, but not optimum if anything is happening.

noimagination

Like datlas, I'm having trouble understanding how this is a question. The whole point of climbing out of the saddle is to allow you to use your body weight to push on your pedals, and to recruit more muscle groups (or to redistribute the effort among muscle groups) to propel your bike up the climb. Any energy expended that doesn't help you turn the pedals (for example: supporting your weight on your hands) is wasted.

Your weight should be on your feet/pedals, not on your hands. You may be pulling on the bars to counteract the force you're applying to the pedals, but you shouldn't be wasting energy supporting your weight on your arms.

PeteHski

Hands always on the hoods for me when climbing out of saddle. Only time I sometimes use the tops is climbing seated.

Weight balanced over the BB. Not too much weight on the bars and front wheel, especially if it's super-steep.

Like these guys, except slower!

Zaskar

Read what Fredo76 wrote, go for a ride, reread what Fredo76 wrote and go ride more. That's a great description of the styles.

Standing comes in many flavors and body position (and cadence) change with them. I ride a 25-yr-old single speed in Atlanta (it's hilly) with a 53/15 and I ride a couple new, light, carbon multi-speeds. I go from leaning forward tearing at the pedals - twisting my body, tugging up on one pedal, pushing on the other, pulling on the bar... on the single speed, to a much more fluid style with less movement on the bikes with gears.

The punchline: Do what's natural. How far forward you want/need to be will be determined by how much you need to pull on the bar do counter how hard you're pushing on the pedal. Don't fight where your body naturally goes.

terrymorse 

I climb standing with my hands on the hoods, but I push my hips back to get my center of mass over the pedals. Not much weight on my hands.

I also don't move my shoulders side-to-side. I rock the bike back and forth gently.

genejockey 

I saw a video the other day, a rider who was taking part in a pro team's "fantasy camp", about how he'd been "climbing wrong". It seems he was mostly standing upright on the pedals with his arms mostly straight. Instead, he was told to get lower, so he could use his arms to pull up on the side where his leg was pushing down. Weight back, not forward, rocking the bike, not yourself. When I'm out of the saddle, I try to imagine my nose moving in a straight line while the bike swings like a pendulum underneath. I keep my weight far enough back that the nose of the saddle grazes one cheek, then the other as the bike swings side to side. Hands on hoods, always.

I have found, BTW, that some of my bikes swing more naturally than others. Not sure why, but my early 1990s Battaglin moves just right, while others seem to need to be manhandled more.

Bob Ross

:::mic drop:::

bargo68 

From Dave Moulton's blog:

"A rider climbs out of the saddle not only to get his full weight over the pedals, but to get his body nearer his hands so he has a direct pull on the handlebars in opposition the downward thrust of his legs. Think of using an elliptical treadmill in a gym. One has to constantly move their body from left to right, so the user’s full weight is directly over the downward stroke of the paddles.On a bike, instead of moving the body, move the bike. As the rider thrusts down on the right pedal, he pulls upwards on the right side of the handlebar. This not only puts an opposing thrust on the pedals but it moves the bike to the left, effectively using the bike as a lever.

As the right leg pushes down on the right pedal, power is transferred through the crank, chainwheel, and chain to the rear wheel. Meanwhile the bike’s frame is moving to the left and the bottom bracket, is moving upwards on the right side.

There is not just the leverage of the crank arm, but the leverage of the whole bike frame working in the opposite direction. As the pedal moves down towards the bottom of its stroke, the right side of the crank axle is moving towards the top.

When the right pedal gets to the bottom, the rider pulls up on the left side of the handlebars, while pushing downwards on the left pedal. The rider’s body stays vertical, and the bike moves from side to side. (See top picture.) Also as the rider pushes down on one pedal, he pulls upward with his other foot on the opposing pedal.

Obviously climbing out of the saddle like this is very tiring, one is using the whole body. But used sparingly, to increase momentum, it can be very effective. For example if the gradient of a climb starts to level out, a strong rider can shift up a gear, then get out of the saddle to get the cadence back up to a level where he can sit down a pedal again.

It is all a matter of a rider knowing his fitness level, and his recovery time. Knowing his strengths and limitations, and that only comes with hard work, training and experience."

BTW, Dave Moulton is looking for somebody to help/take over the blog. Read about it here:

Dave Moulton's Blog - Dave Moulton's Bike Blog - Thank you

spelger

its funny, my recollection of how i do it is to pull up on the bar opposite to the leg pushing down on the pedal. but haven't ridden outside in a while so recollection may be wrong. guess its like riding a bike, it will come back to me.

terrymorse 

A couple of comments:

It's less a pulling up on the bars and more a rocking the bars sideways. The rocking motion happens between the downward pushes on the pedals, when it's easiest to rock the bike.

When the bike is tipped to the side, it counter balances the off-center pedal force that wants to tip the bike over. If you don't tip the bike over, you have to use arm muscles to hold the bike upright.

Climbing out of the saddle is not that much more tiring that climbing in the saddle. Some folks say it's 10-15% less metabolically efficient. Clicking up a gear or two is a good idea, as the efficient out-of-the-saddle cadence is less than when seated.

genejockey 

If you pull up on the left while pushing down on the right, won't you just fall over?

If you pull up on the bars on the same side you're pushing down on the pedals you're essentially boosting the force on the pedal. If you pulled up on the opposite side while pushing down you'd be reducing the force on the pedal.

genejockey 

I find it hard to do much more than about 70 rpm out of the saddle, and there's generally a cadence/force that feels "right" for want of a better word. A Goldilocks gear, so to speak, where one higher is too slow/hard, and one lower is too fast/easy.

zandoval 

Been thinking about this now... 1970s

Back in the day we had 10 speeds, that is, a five speed freewheel. In the back a common find was about 13-21 or 14-28 Regina. Up front 52/42 on the chain ring. Friction shifters (non-indexed). Also the bikes were of longer wheel base and more flexible.

Climbing was a real chore but at 6 feet tall and 152 pounds and 22 years old I was climbing out of the saddle pretty easy. I remember my upper chest just being even above the bars and my hands on the hoods pulling up as I mashed as well as pulled on my rat traps.

Today's bikes have a different configuration. More gears, shorter wheel base, different angle on the seat tube and position of the bottom bracket. They are not giant differences but certainly must change the mechanism of action to be sure...

phrantic09

On long climbs I alternate in and out of the saddle. When out of the saddle, I’m typically on the bottom of the drops with my weight loaded on the pedals.

I climb out of the saddle as much as in. A lot of the hills around me are more like a sprint uphill- .25 ish miles with 50-80 feet of elevation

bargo68 

All great comments, and actually much more what I strive for when I do it than how Mr. Moulton elucidated. I do like his reference to the bicycle acting as a "lever" when moved side to side, however.

Being a commuter and recreational rider, my out of the saddle technique is more about maintaining my pace and energy rather than overtaking or staying in the draft. I also like genejockey 's comment about keeping his nose as a centerline and having all the "dancing" going on from the waist down.

Calsun

Best overall is to have a low enough gear so you can remain in the saddle as much as possible. I only stand up to stretch and relieve my back and shoulder muscles for a minute.

The efficiency of bicycles is do in large part to having them support the weight of the rider. Standing up negates this advantage and adds some amount of air drag. I experienced this on a section of Hwy 101 north of Orick where the road went in a northwest direction and I was heading straight in to strong headwinds. Standing up made is easier on this very steep section of road but also greatly increased my exposure to the wind. This was also a problem for the trucks and so the California Division of Highways later spent millions of dollars to reroute the highway to the east for them.

Overall I prefer to have a low enough gear option to be able to go up any grade regarless of how steep or how long it may be. I put a large enough cog on the cassette to make this possible. Going from a 24t to a 28t cog makes a great deal of difference. The only caveat is that the larger cogs have been more prone to dishing in the past and I would stick to a premium one to avoid this problem which can be catastrophic (based on personal experience and injury).

rsbob 

79pmooney

Yes, Fred76 has a nice description. I call it all a dance, from the light rocking and swaying to the full body push-pull using every (well it feels like it anyway) muscle in my body. Been doing the dance for 50 years. I love doing real climbs on fix gears.

I do two things that run a little counter to the usual thought. Ride the drops anytime I have headwind (and see to it that every bike of mine is right, out of the saddle and in the drops; this comes before I locate the brake levers. I like handlebars with "sloped shoulders" like the track/pista bars and the old Cinelli 65s because they don't bruise my forearms while I do the rock. And I like fix gears set up with real reaches so I can pull myself forward, in part to get weight off the downstroke and provide a very comfortable pull on the bars to offset the hamstring/calf upward pull. I can actually do real climbing and give my chondro malacia knees a break.

If my wind is coming up too high, I pull forward and back off. That downward force from my arms is just a force. I'm not moving anything so there is no energy spent. (Energy - force X distance. Going up stairs take energy, Standing there on the same muscles doesn't.) So, hill grade allowing, I can loaf going up long hills in big gears out of the saddle. (But it does take strength! Those muscles will feel it.) When I was commuter strong and in my early 50s, I loafed up Portland's Germantown road on my 28 pound winter fix gear with racks and fenders on a 44-17 gear. Yes, I was loafing with every fiber in my body on the steep hairpins and laughing about that absurd concept up the hardest stretches. This is where my super long stems really work for me; in allowing full body use but not maximum effort (and totally counter the the weight over the pedals concept).