Seattle Forrest

I’m in the market for a fondo bike. I went to test ride one, the store only has one of that model built in my size, it has Ultegra Di2. I’ve been looking for Ultegra mechanical. The salesman offered me the bike I tried for $120 over price of the same bike with 6800.

I’ve never ridden a bike with mechanical shifting before. I wasn’t crazy about it, but that was largely because it was unfamiliar. I realize that pretty much everybody who’s tried it loves it, so I might, too, if I get used to it. I know there are some nice things about it, and from what I’ve heard Ultegra implements electronic well.

I ride lots of pavement, but also plenty of hard packed dirt and some mud. Don't know if that has any bearing on the electronic vs mechanical decision or not.

What would you do?

Seattle Forrest

I feel like I'd be crazy to say no at that price. Guess my reservation is I kind of enjoy the feel of mechanical shifting when I ride. Simple and timeless.

blazin

I wouldn't hesitate to jump on the Di2 wagon at that price. For me, electronic shifting really shines in off-the-pavement situations. Less potential for grime to get in the cables and muck things up and less potential for a missed shift in a low traction situation to put you on the ground.

Which is not say there aren't potential downsides. There is, I suppose, the possibility of a rough and jarring ride knocking loose the battery connection, for example, but I have yet to have this happen. And having the battery die on you far out in the middle of nowhere would not be ideal, but if you stay on top of your charging that shouldn't be a problem.

But as I repeatedly have to remind my wife, just because something is a good deal doesn't mean you have to get it. Enjoying your bike is more important than whether it was a "good" buy. If you love the action and feel of mechanical shifting, go with what you love.

TimothyH

Worth it for ease of adjustment alone.

Marcus_Ti

Only thing not to love about Di2, is it costs $$$ when something breaks, LOL. But even then, worth it.

The big difference from Di2 and mechanical Ultegra...much less dead lever throw, also multishifting galore, also synchro shifting if you want it.

Cyclist0108

I got Di2 because it was forced on me at the same time a van full of masked gunmen with automatic weapons insisted I get a bike with disc brakes (as is the wont of the cycling industry). (They were bundled with Di2 at the time.) I have no regrets.

Seattle Forrest

Nobody seems to have anything bad to say about it.

HTupolev

The derailleurs look a little weird.

Cyclist0108

It works far better than I expected. The only bad thing I can say is that owning it has deprived me of the immense pleasure of being able to criticize it without knowing anything about it.

When I first got it, I deliberately ran it down before recharging it, just to see what would happen. It gives you ample warning, and then the first thing to go is the front derailleur. If you charge it every 4 to 6 months, you will be fine.

My battery is internal, in the seat post. I think those with external batteries might run into potential problems with theft or tampering, and it looks a little less elegant.

Oh, one bad thing is they don't have an OS X version of the software. When I did a firmware update, I had to boot into a windows partition on my mac mini.

Seattle Forrest

A few questions:

Can you see the “battery low” light while you ride? (How else would you know it’s time to think about heading back?)

How long did it take you to get used to the buttons? Any trouble using them with full finger gloves (in the winter)?

Does anybody know the capacity of the battery – the seatpost one? I keep reading it’s “very generous” so I’m not really worried about that, but there are no outlets near the bike stand, and I’m wondering if a power bank would work.

Well, I agree with that. Especially the FD. They make a whir sound when you shift, too.

With my Force 22 bike, I had a lot of trouble getting into the big ring when I wanted to. Odd looking derailleurs are probably a good trade-off.

I'll have to go all the way to Redmond to get this bike. I'm going to figure my transit options out, I'd rather ride it home than drive it home.

Marcus_Ti

-Battery readouts. Lots of ways to do this. You can put a Di2 battery field on Garmin Edges, probably the same for Wahoo. Given how gradual Di2 battery use is, it isn't a useful field to keep front page. You can use handlebar-displays like Shimano's MT800 Di2 display/junction that reads out gearing and battery and so on (I do this). If you use the new-for-2017 handlebar-plug-junction, you can see the LEDs in your handlebar plug...otherwise the old(er) 3/5-plug Junction-A you need to be off the bike to check.

-It takes as much or as little time to get used to them as you get inventive in setting them up. Remember they're mouse buttons basically and fully reprogrammable to do anything. You can set them up for paddle-shifting (like on a higher-end-sports-car, or similar to SRAM) or keep Shimano defaults or anything in between. You can have multiple shifting all the way up the cassette or not. You can do simultaneous gear dumps a la Campagnolo or not.

-Note that being mouse buttons, basically, Di2 has far less dead-space throw in the shift controls than Shimano mechanical....IMHO a good thing.

-Gloves depend on what gloves you use. Shimano did a good job on the 6770/6870 and R785 levers differentiating the placement/feel of the buttons. Can't vouch for the 9000 or 8000 stuff.

-Seatpost battery has a rating of about 1000 miles, officially and IME IRL. You may get a bit more or less depending on how much you use the FD, as the FD uses more power.

Seattle Forrest

My Edge was on my bike when it got stolen. The only bike computer I have at this point is my wrist watch. I'll have to see if it's compatible with Di2.

Do the newer groups broadcast what gear you're in out of the box, or do you have to buy a transmitter for that like with the original group? Do Garmins record that info, or just display it and then forget? (It'd be interesting to see how often I shift, and what gear combination goes along with the cadence and power.)

Marcus_Ti

My knowledge is current as of Di2 6870....but here's the rules AFAIK. You need a wireless unit. Either:

-Handlebar-mounted display such as MT800 or M9050/9051, which have ANT+ or BT-LE built in

OR

-EW-WU111, inline wireless unit

OR

-EW-WU101 wireless unit

AND

The new battery DN110


To get all the fun stuff out of Di2 (like multi-shift and synchronized shifting). It is a bit of a tangled maze, in no small part because Shimano use terms that don't translate well ("semi/full synchronized shifting" for example) and because of the arcane multi-part SKU numbers that are more confusing and harder to keep straight than they are informative.


The Garmins record stats like # of gear changes, which you can read on the "Summary" page of stats after a ride...like "number of front gear changes", "number of rear gear changes". As of now there's no exposed GUI to actually look at that data in Connect or Strava, not even Stravistix ATM, AFAIK.

TimothyH

Do any of the Connect IQ apps do this?


-Tim-

Marcus_Ti

AFAIK not. There's only a handful (I think 4) Connect IQ dealios of any sort that do anything with Di2. There's not much incentive, since Garmin provides a ton of "gears" fields that do just about all of the normal live-readout stuff you'd want on device....all those live readout fields don't seem to record data for later use. I haven't gone and torn apart a Di2 FIT file in my Fit File Repair Tool to see if any of the gear changes are time-indexed with the rest of the records.

MikeOK

I have Di2 on my road bike. I've been through a lot of bikes, both mtn and road and it is hands down the best group there is. Get it dialed in and there's zero maintenance. It's on my road bike, and my roads are ROUGH and it's been rock solid so far. The worst thing about it is you have so many different components that it takes a while to figure out what you can do with what gadget. Some of the newer functions you can only do with the new battery like synchronized shifting, etc.

Seattle Forrest

Thanks for the help untangling this mess!

This is the one I got. Bike should be ready tomorrow.

TimothyH

To be clear, a wireless unit is not absolutely necessary.

Everything the wireless unit can do can also be done with the SM-BCR2 battery charger and USB cable. One could build a 6870 system with no wireless unit whatsoever and it would function perfectly.

I own an EW-WU111 wireless unit which was never used, not once. $80 could have been stuffed into the seat tube instead.



-Tim-

egear

As a mechanic I'll jump in here. The batteries seem to die rather quickly most seem to last like 2 years and then need to be replaced. When you connect the thing to the PC and it has a yellow light you need to replace it. I've seen my far share of r-der replacements also. Personally for the money I'd have to stick with the mechanical set up. Batteries and wires just don't seem to last long ridin dirt and or gravel.

50voltphantom

I feel like SRAM got so many things right with eTap, this being one of them (lots of Mac users out there), and the batteries.

Cyclist0108

Yes. I have to gently move my junction box (or my head) to take a look, but that is about it. But I confess to only checking about once every 2 months.

It was immediate, but then I never had a bike with conventional "brifters"; my previous road bike had down-tube shifters. The work fine with my Pearl Izumi unpadded full-fingered gloves.

Mine lasts 5 to 6 months per charge, and I do lots of shifting. Also I have had it over 3 years with no signs of depleted capacity. The first thing to fail would be the front derailleur, so you would get plenty of heads-up. I've never moved my charger from my tool box. (Also I had to deliberately run it down to get that far. In reality, you get plenty of warning.) I'm hoping to tour with this bike (and if it wasn't for those meddlesome kids, I would be now.)

Seattle Forrest

I bought the bike, and took delivery of it Monday. (Will post photos soon.)

I was slightly wrong, this is 6870 but also R785. Shimano can be confusing with part numbers. It’s Di2 with hydraulic brakes. I’m coming from SRAM Force 22, and Ultegra 6700 before that.

I wasn’t very impressed with Di2 after the test ride. Don’t like the lack of feel to differentiate the buttons. Didn’t like the light press. It felt slower to shift than a well-tuned mechanical system. I don’t think it actually is, I think it just feels that way. Unless you want to downshift several gears at once, I think a mech system does that faster.

But I’ve got 50+ miles with it now, and I like it. No problem telling which button is which from the hoods or the drops.

Really like the auto-trim.

My watch can tell me which gear I’m in and how much juice is in the battery. The summary screen on the watch tells me how many F/R shifts I did over the course of the ride, but Garmin Connect doesn’t. It would be nice to be able to correlate that with other stats and with the map.

Seattle Forrest

You know, I considered that, but after some thought I prefer the Shimano battery setup. It's one battery for everything vs charging one derailleur at a time and occasionally replacing the ones in the brifters. I also prefer to lose the FD first and keep the RD working, without having to get off the bike and swap batteries around. eTap looks pretty slick too, I just disagree about the battery part.

Marcus_Ti

Go into E-Tube, you can change the shift speed.

Congrats on the rig!

TimothyH

Yep, confusing.

R785 levers and RS805 calipers are considered "Non series". They are not part of the Ultegra or Dura Ace lines.

Another differentiator between the non-series and series components is the number of Di2 ports. The R785 hydraulic levers have only one Di2 connection per lever. Mechanical brake DA and Ultegra Di2 levers have three Di2 connections per lever. The Ultegra or DA levers can function as a Junction A if you want to get creative with cabling.

Did you get the RS805 calipers? What pads are you using? RS805 calipers use L02A resin and L04C metallic pads. Best price I've found is Amazon.

Once you get used to Di2 and hydro you will have an absolute blast. And yeah, congratulations. Post pics please.


-Tim-