corrado33

It's been a week since I've started using my new B-17 narrow on my commuter bike. (I have very... very skinny sit bones.) Today I gave in, and had to ride one of my other bikes. The Brooks is literally PAINFUL to ride. I decided to try a Brooks because for the last 4 years I've ridden with a normal saddle with a gel saddle pad on it to prevent saddle sores on the 4 mile commute (too short to wear a chamois or real biking gear.) So I said "well, these saddles are supposed to be great, even without a chamois, so I'll give them a shot." Yes, the gel saddle pad PREVENTED saddle sores. I've done many experiments with and without the pad, without the pad I get saddle sores, with the pad I don't.

Is this normal? I've decided I'll give it a month riding it as much as I can possibly stand. But honestly, this is the least comfortable saddle I've ever ridden. Other saddles (even thin "hard" ones) aren't "painful" but they will give me saddle sores after a few days of riding without a chamois. (Say, on a commuter.) It's painful directly ON my sit bones. Nowhere else. It feels like I've trying to dig my sit bones into a granite countertop with all my weight on it.

It's not the positioning of the saddle, it's the stiffness. The saddle is tilted up more than normal saddles, like people typically do with brooks saddles. That's perfectly fine.

I debated trying to loosen the tension on the leather in the front, but it's already at the end of it's range (I can't make it any looser from how it was shipped to me.) How long do these things take to wear in?

The bike I'm riding it on has a very small saddle to bar drop (and it's a flat bar commuter).

I just don't know how much I can force myself to ride this bike. It's quite... miserable currently. I already applied the proofhide, so I'd imagine applying neatsfoot oil would be hard at this point.

Any advice?

lostarchitect 

If it's not for you, it's not for you--and they're not for everyone. That said, I find that leather saddles I love can be hellish when not adjusted quite right. You say it's not the adjustment, but it may be. It also may be that even though you have narrow sit bones, the B-17N might be too narrow and you might be better suited to a Professional. It's just pretty much impossible to diagnose from here...

SJX426 

How long is your commute?

When I purchased my Colnago, it came with a Flite TI. I thought a saddle was a saddle and rode it. I soon found that I could not be on it for more than 30 miles. I went back to my then 30 year old Brooks Pro. Don't know how long I can ride it.

When I moved to DC, I picked up a Pinarello with a Flute TI. I knew 12 miles was acceptable so left it on.

Now after almost 4300 miles on the Flite, it is fine for the commute. I have acquired a number of additional Brooks Pro's and a Swift. I don't know about the swift yet but the others work just fine for my back side.

There are two break ins that need to occur to get to a comfort level, the saddle and the other part that sits on it. It takes time depending on what you were acclimated to. Some say a Pro needs 300 miles to be broken in. I don't know what the B17 needs. My understanding is that since the leather is thinner, less miles.

Bottom line, so to speak, if it isn't working after this time period, I question if it will work at all.

sloar 

Takes around 500 miles to break in. They can be a little uncomfortable at first, but once they are broke in they are pretty nice. But every butt is different, I'd give it a little more time.

rhm

Sorry to hear about your discomfort!

I suspect it's a matter of riding style to some degree; there is so little comparison between a gel saddle and a hard leather saddle that I don't think one really sits on them quite the same way. I'm putting this badly. Maybe someone more articulate than I will try to explain.

If you want to try extreme measures, here's what you do. 1, make the saddle wet. How wet, that's debatable. Some people put a wet washcloth over it for a few hours; others dunk it into water for a minute or less, then let it sit for an hour or three. Don't make it sopping wet, just let it soak up some water. Let the water soak in, so it doesn't look wet. This will soften it temporarily. 2, go for a short ride. Just enough that you can see the shape of the saddle starting to change. As soon as you see any change, stop. 3, let it dry. Give it a day or two.
After you've done that, reassess the situation. The process described will adjust the saddle to your anatomy. You can repeat it as many times as necessary, but it is hard to undo the changes, so I recommend taking it easy, give it a week or two between treatments.

Good luck!

corrado33

The B-17N is 15-20 mm wider than most normal saddles I ride. The last time I measured them (years... and years ago) I did the typical "measure them and add a bit per side to get your saddle size" and my saddle size came out to be ~120-125mm, much narrower than saddles are manufactured. On my road bikes, I ride the Fizik Arione, specified at 132mm. It's one of the thinnest saddles I could find.

If the B-17 N is too narrow for me... I'm not sure who it would be built for...

I'm also not sure how I could adjust it to make it more comfortable? Tilt it forward?

squirtdad 

my experience is that a B-17 works for me as long as I am pretty upright.

A b-17 narrow imperial (with the cut) did not work for me at all

The Swift works great and in road position with some drop from saddle to bar (not to much....to old for extreme )

in looking at saddles what I think makes the difference form is not just width, but have.... my old go to saddle that I still run on one my bikes was the orignal sella italia turbo. it has a bit of a rounded top at the back. The swift is similar, but the b17-narrow was way more flat

good luck

corrado33

Thanks for the advice! I was hoping you'd comment. I'm not sure if I want to go the water route yet. The saddle is brand new, and if I don't like it, I'd like to be able to sell it while still claiming that it's as "good as new." I don't know if I could do that in good conscience after doing the water treatment.

I'll try to give it a month. If there is no change in comfort by the end of the month then I'll have to sell it or try something more drastic.

Pistard

My grandfather had one in the 1920's. better technology out there over the last 100 Years

ThermionicScott 

I'm of the mind that a saddle should at least be tolerable from the get-go. Yes, a brand-new Brooks is hard, but if adjusted correctly, it should be no worse than sitting on the corner of a wooden table. Severe pain and/or numbness haven't gone away with 300-1000 miles of break-in, in my experience.

Despite the nominally wider aft end, a Pro might be a better fit for your narrow sit bones, as the top shape is a little more rounded and the center section seems narrower than a B17N.

Or the Fizik Arione might just be better for your anatomy.

SJX426 

Yeah, butt there still is a high demand for leather for a number of products despite the technology "advancements".

Lascauxcaveman 

It might be too wide. You said you have very skinny sit bones, [MENTION=345109]corrado33[/MENTION]. Is your old gel saddle noticeably narrower?

I've been noticing my B17s and my B17-width RHM saddle are all seeming to wide for me, these days. Not enough to get rid of them, they just don't seem to disappear right away like the Pros and (gasp) Unicanitors do.

I'm with [MENTION=251447]ThermionicScott[/MENTION], a saddle should be at the very least tolerable from the get-go. This is assuming you're a regular rider who does significant miles. And also, that slightly rounded up section towards the back is pretty much a must-have for me. The B17s all seem to start fairly firm back there, then flatten out more than I'd like. Once I start to sink into them, it's not so good anymore.

nlerner

If you get saddle sores from a 4-mile commute if you don't have padding, your physiology/anatomy is unique and likely requires something more specialized.

bargainguy 

A couple ideas on accelerating the break-in on your Brooks here:

Breaking in a Leather Saddle (quickly) | Rando Richard

TugaDude

OP says 4 mile commute. Not very far to be getting saddle sores. I ride mostly Brooks, both B17 and Professional models and so long as they are set up at the proper angle (for me) they feel great.

Falcon3

Don't throw in the towel yet on Brooks. I freaking hate the B17N I rode 10 miles on one and spent the last 5 pedaling out of the saddle cause it was so painful. However, my B17 is like butter and I can ride as far as my legs will handle on it.

You might also look into the Brooks Cambium models. I have a C17 and it's amazingly comfortable too, and weatherproof, so you don't have to worry about getting the saddle wet.

Salamandrine 

I'd try setting it level. An up nose position works for some people, but it will tend to put more pressure on your sit bones IME. It's a bit counterintuitive.

If you're actually getting saddle sores - as in red boils or welts, try some aloe vera. Old school but does wonders.

Kevindale

Let me know if you need to sell it along. I just did a longer ride (only 26 miles) on my new old B17, and while my sitz bones have never been better, I'm sore where the edge/side of the saddle pushed into my inner thigh. I figured I'd try a B17 narrow next, and then a Pro if that seems too narrow.

ThermionicScott 

Similar to my progression. I started with a couple of B17's, noticed that they chafed my inner thighs on longer rides, so I tried a Pro. It was a bit too narrow and rounded, so I got a B17N on one bike and a B5N (almost the same dimensions) on another and they are doing the trick.

cdmurphy

+1 to this. I find my backside needs a more rounded saddle top. Brooks Pros, and Ideale 90s fit the bill, and are comfortable from the get go, even when very hard and stiff. I've tried a few Fujita belt saddles, which are closely patterned after the B17. They have a flatter rear section, and a sharper transition from the sides to the top. I dutifully put in a few hundred miles on them, to no avail. Always felt like my sitbones were sitting on a corner of the saddle, rather than supported by it. From looking at the relatively wider width of the Fujita, I think it was extending past the sit bones, and digging into the flesh just past them, with painful results.

If your B17 narrow is painful now, I don't think it's going to get much better. Usually, a good fitting leather saddle will go from good, to great. Not horrible to good or great.

One last point - it seems Brooks changed the width and shape of the Pro some time in the 80s. I like the slightly narrower, more rounded earlier version. Modern production ones seem to flare too much at the back, with a flatter rear profile. They're ok for 20-30 miles, but not much more for me. The older ones fit me like a glove.

lostarchitect 

Yeah, like I said, tough to diagnose from here. But it's not all about width in terms of the numbers, the shapes of the saddles are different too. If you want to try a thinner one, there are some vintage saddles that are smaller. RHM may have one or two that he has recovered?

As far as adjustment, any direction may make a difference. Some people like leather saddles lower or higher than other saddles. Most (but not all) like the nose tilted a bit up, but the degree varies a lot. You may also find that you want it farther back or forward. This is all generic info, I know, but, again, tough to know what is going on from here.

But all that said, I also think I agree with ThermonicScott: if it's not at least ok at first, it probably isn't for you.

corrado33

Unfortunately, I think you're right. I've always had somewhat "finicky" skin. It's very dry and I tend to develop saddle sores faster than most people unfortunately. The skin thing I think was passed down from my mother.

I'm not lying though. I know everything on the internet has to be taken with a grain of salt, but if I ride my 4 mile commute without the gel pad on top of my saddle, I will get saddle sores. Not after a day, maybe not even a couple days, but in about a week I will have uncomfortable saddle sores.

And I'm no slouch when riding either. I usually put in ~150 miles every week. My butt is perfectly accustomed to road bikes (and mountain bikes when ridden offroad), but when I'm out on the road bike I wear a chamois. When I'm commuting to work, I really don't want to. Plus I'm often on and off the bike throughout the day, so that would involve me changing multiple times per day and that gets really annoying.

corrado33

Thanks for the advice. With traditional saddles, I HATE rounded/flared back ends. This type of saddle...



I despise. I don't know why, I can't get comfortable on them. My bianchi came with one, so did my panasonic. I tried to ride both of them and I couldn't get comfortable on either. For me, they require almost mm precision on where your butt is forward and backward. If the saddle is too far forward it shoves me into the handlebars. Too far backward and I'm sitting on the "soft bits" between my legs. I move a lot when I ride, I shift my weight around, so having a saddle that requires me to sit in the EXACT same spot every time is... not ideal. I rode one of the curved saddles probably ~150 miles (5ish rides) before I decided to buy myself a flat saddle like the ones I typically ride.

I'll try making it flat. If that doesn't work I'll try moving it around. If that doesn't work, by the end of the month, I'll sell it. Seems like someone above already called it, and I have no reason not to sell it to them.

nlerner

I intended no doubts about your problem, and it does sure sound like you need a padded saddle of some sort or padded shorts. Or you might consider padded briefs, which you can wear under work clothes, but you'd still have the problem of needing to change in and out of them throughout the day.

gugie 

Back in the day it was common to squirt down a new pair of leather cycling shoes with water after you put then on for the first ride. They'd mold to your foot on a hot summer day. Same idea with baseball gloves - some put it in hot water for a few minutes, then put a ball in the pocket, tie it up, and let it dry. Shortens the break in period, but also the life of the glove.