Suntour groups - Sprint 9000, GPX and Ole'
#1
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,542
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2442 Post(s)
Liked 4,457 Times
in
2,112 Posts
Suntour groups - Sprint 9000, GPX and Ole'
In my quest to build up a Suntour Sprint 9000 groupset, I noted a particular oddity in the fact that many components from the Sprint 9000 group are curiously absent from mention or photographs online. Even eBay seems to be religated to Sprint 9000 rear derailers and partial groupsets.
For a while, I was led to believe that the Sprint 9000 groupset was limited to a derailer/freewheel/shifter groupset, until I perceived an NOS Sprint 9000 crankarm at a Local Overpiced Bike Shop. I then realized that there had to be a complete Suntour 9000 groupset - abiet, a highly evasive groupset...
Various internet searches to locate any other existence of this crankset were not succesful until I found this page:
https://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/sun...tourscans.html
The road group page, while not full color photographs, confirmed that a complete Sprint 9000 grouppo existed, not to mention full grouppos for GPX and a group I had never heard of - Ole.
Am I simply missing something here, or are these groupsets and their components that poorly known? I would have thought that the reasonably well-known Sprint 9000 group would have had more circulation of cranksets and brakesets then I've seen so far.
Take care,
-Kurt
For a while, I was led to believe that the Sprint 9000 groupset was limited to a derailer/freewheel/shifter groupset, until I perceived an NOS Sprint 9000 crankarm at a Local Overpiced Bike Shop. I then realized that there had to be a complete Suntour 9000 groupset - abiet, a highly evasive groupset...
Various internet searches to locate any other existence of this crankset were not succesful until I found this page:
https://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/sun...tourscans.html
The road group page, while not full color photographs, confirmed that a complete Sprint 9000 grouppo existed, not to mention full grouppos for GPX and a group I had never heard of - Ole.
Am I simply missing something here, or are these groupsets and their components that poorly known? I would have thought that the reasonably well-known Sprint 9000 group would have had more circulation of cranksets and brakesets then I've seen so far.
Take care,
-Kurt
#2
Unique Vintage Steel
Interesting questions. None of which I have answers for, but I would be interested to find the answers as well. I currently don't have any SunTour gear in my collection, but such a rare group would be of interst indeed.
#3
Dropped
This is an interesting article on the history of SunTour. It sounds like the non-indexed Sprint gruppo was introduced in 1986, a year after Shimano introduced Dura-Ace SIS. In addition, while Shimano was manufacturing in Singapore by then, SunTour was still manufacturing in Japan, a huge financial disadvantage.
"SunTour hosted three focus group meetings at the 1985 U.S. bike show. Each group had about twenty bike dealers. SunTour asked the dealers what they thought of Shimano's indexed shifting. The consensus response was that it was too complicated and too expensive and it would just be another Shimano fad. Based on this advice, SunTour decided that responding to Shimano SIS could be postponed for a year. This turned out to be dead wrong. The wolf was at the door and SunTour did not have a year of grace.
1986 was a retrenchment year. SunTour introduced the Sprint gruppo, priced between Cyclone and Superbe. Sprint was splendid value and everything looked expensive, but it was not indexed. Superbe Pro was dropped.
Shimano proved out the SIS concept with 1985 Dura-Ace. All of the bicycling magazines raved about the performance of Dura-Ace SIS. Shimano also used Bio-Pace non-round chainrings as an effective marketing tool.
In 1986, SIS trickled down from Dura-Ace to the medium-priced 600 and L Series gruppos. SIS was in short supply and Shimano could insist that the bike makers buy complete sets of the critical gear train components. They could also insist that the key dimensions of the bicycle frame meet Shimano's specifications. Indexed shifting bicycles flew out of the bike stores. The maxim was, "If it doesn't click it won't sell."
Shimano took over most of SunTour's customers in the low priced Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) market. Shimano's costs were lower because their low-priced components were made in the Singapore factory. SunTour's Japanese factories were still suffering from yen shock and could not match Taiwan or Singapore prices. SunTour's U.S. market share fell to about 40% and Shimano passed SunTour in 1986. SunTour lost more money and SunTour-USA borrowed against their inventories to help cover the losses."
"SunTour hosted three focus group meetings at the 1985 U.S. bike show. Each group had about twenty bike dealers. SunTour asked the dealers what they thought of Shimano's indexed shifting. The consensus response was that it was too complicated and too expensive and it would just be another Shimano fad. Based on this advice, SunTour decided that responding to Shimano SIS could be postponed for a year. This turned out to be dead wrong. The wolf was at the door and SunTour did not have a year of grace.
1986 was a retrenchment year. SunTour introduced the Sprint gruppo, priced between Cyclone and Superbe. Sprint was splendid value and everything looked expensive, but it was not indexed. Superbe Pro was dropped.
Shimano proved out the SIS concept with 1985 Dura-Ace. All of the bicycling magazines raved about the performance of Dura-Ace SIS. Shimano also used Bio-Pace non-round chainrings as an effective marketing tool.
In 1986, SIS trickled down from Dura-Ace to the medium-priced 600 and L Series gruppos. SIS was in short supply and Shimano could insist that the bike makers buy complete sets of the critical gear train components. They could also insist that the key dimensions of the bicycle frame meet Shimano's specifications. Indexed shifting bicycles flew out of the bike stores. The maxim was, "If it doesn't click it won't sell."
Shimano took over most of SunTour's customers in the low priced Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) market. Shimano's costs were lower because their low-priced components were made in the Singapore factory. SunTour's Japanese factories were still suffering from yen shock and could not match Taiwan or Singapore prices. SunTour's U.S. market share fell to about 40% and Shimano passed SunTour in 1986. SunTour lost more money and SunTour-USA borrowed against their inventories to help cover the losses."
#4
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,542
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2442 Post(s)
Liked 4,457 Times
in
2,112 Posts
Originally Posted by cuda2k
Interesting questions. None of which I have answers for, but I would be interested to find the answers as well. I currently don't have any SunTour gear in my collection, but such a rare group would be of interest indeed.
I'd say Sprint 9000 is a victim of being overlooked by collectors, and, as JunkYardBike says, somewhat limited in production due to Suntour's economic situation at the time.
I also note that the Suntour catalogue displaying the crankset is from the Accushift era, after Sprint 9000 was revised for Suntour 7-speed index shifting. Not that this means much, as I'm sure the crankset was available during the previous pre-index Sprint 9000 group.
-Kurt
Likes For cudak888:
#5
Unique Vintage Steel
Kurt, found an Ole rear derailleur on ebay: https://cgi.ebay.com/SUNTOUR-OLE-Rear...QQcmdZViewItem
edit: Seller actually has what appears to be a full set of Ole in NOS condition at the moment.
edit: Seller actually has what appears to be a full set of Ole in NOS condition at the moment.
#6
If I own it, I ride it
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardinal Country
Posts: 5,587
Bikes: Lejeune(14), Raleigh, Raysport, Jan De Reus, Gazelle, Masi, B. Carré(4), Springfield, Greg Lemond, Andre Bertin, Schwinn Paramount
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 593 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 665 Times
in
314 Posts
Likes For CV-6:
#7
The Legitimiser
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Southampton, UK
Posts: 4,849
Bikes: Gazelle Trim Trophy, EG Bates Track Bike, HR Bates Cantiflex bike, Nigel Dean fixed gear conversion, Raleigh Royal, Falcon Westminster.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
4 Posts
I had a bike with Sprint single ring cranks, rear mech, single shifter, brake calipers and levers. I sold everything but the levers, and still have the pics on my other machine ( I think). If you want me to dig them out, I will.
#8
40 something and counting
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: dallas/ft.worth texas
Posts: 422
Bikes: Colnago,Tsunami, Kestrel, Univega
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
If I remember correctly, Ole was in direct competition with shimano Sante...both had a white finish to the parts.....and just like Sante, the white finish never caught on...
mark
mark
Likes For forensicchemist:
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,223
Mentioned: 656 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4722 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,047 Times
in
1,882 Posts
As JUNkYardBike states, SunTour did not immediately respond to SIS and lost market share. But what reaslly hurt was 1987 when they rushed an underdeveloped AccuShift onto the market. The poor reputation severely eroded the number of models that spec'd SunTour as OEM. They finally got Accushift correct in 1989, when they introduced Ole and GPX, but by that time the damage was done and Shimano was dominant.
The result of all this is that the mentioned groups were not widely spec'd. Ole is the rarest, Berto states that Ole was a boutique group, in repsonse to Sante and designed primarily at the bequest of one US manufacturer, who later backed out of the deal. Of the three, GPX appears to be the most common. It did manage to get spec'd by some major mid-range bicycles - Centurion Ironman Expert, Giant Allegre and Miyata 1100A. Sprint was sort of in between, but I see it more often in the friction version than the AccuShift.
The result of all this is that the mentioned groups were not widely spec'd. Ole is the rarest, Berto states that Ole was a boutique group, in repsonse to Sante and designed primarily at the bequest of one US manufacturer, who later backed out of the deal. Of the three, GPX appears to be the most common. It did manage to get spec'd by some major mid-range bicycles - Centurion Ironman Expert, Giant Allegre and Miyata 1100A. Sprint was sort of in between, but I see it more often in the friction version than the AccuShift.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 446
Bikes: Canondale LL Bean, Criterium; both MY Schwinn Volare's, Voyageur 11.8; Holdsworth; Bob Jackson; Raleigh Super Course Mk II and Super Course Racing USA; Trek 1500
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Originally Posted by T-Mar
. . . SunTour . . . rushed an underdeveloped AccuShift onto the market. The poor reputation severely eroded the number of models that spec'd SunTour as OEM. They finally got Accushift correct in 1989, when they introduced Ole and GPX, but by that time the damage was done and Shimano was dominant. . . .
When putting together an Accushift "system," it is important to use Accushift gear cables and housing . . . Accushift shifters . . . matching front and rear derailleurs and properly spaced Accushift freewheels or cassettes that match the derailleurs . . . and last but not least . . . Accushift chains that match the aforementioned freewheels and cassettes.
It appears from the SfS piece, many manufactuers and dealers were unwilling to invest in entire matching Accushift gruppos, therefore the mismatched components did not work properly, resulting in the public perception that Accushift was subpar in design, when in reality, it was every bit as good as SIS (since it was probably stolen Shimano design the first year) ha ha
#12
Senior Member
Originally Posted by OrangeOkie
It appears from the SfS piece, many manufactuers and dealers were unwilling to invest in entire matching Accushift gruppos, therefore the mismatched components did not work properly, resulting in the public perception that Accushift was subpar in design, when in reality, it was every bit as good as SIS (since it was probably stolen Shimano design the first year) ha ha
#13
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,542
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2442 Post(s)
Liked 4,457 Times
in
2,112 Posts
Originally Posted by JunkYardBike
Take care,
-Kurt
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,223
Mentioned: 656 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4722 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,047 Times
in
1,882 Posts
Originally Posted by LWaB
That is partially correct but even at its best, will all the required components, the shifting wasn't up to Shimano's standard.
Likes For T-Mar:
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 3,696
Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1172 Post(s)
Liked 449 Times
in
321 Posts
Originally Posted by OrangeOkie
As a somewhat "Johnny come lately" Suntour disciple, I have a theory on the so called "underdeveloped Accushift" components. It builds on what the "Sunset for Suntour" author stated . . . ie. Suntour developed Accushift as a complete system, and did not recommend mixing components. (It appears they may have stolen some Shimano designs) . . . I have read this very thing in various dealer bulletins.
When putting together an Accushift "system," it is important to use Accushift gear cables and housing . . . Accushift shifters . . . matching front and rear derailleurs and properly spaced Accushift freewheels or cassettes that match the derailleurs . . . and last but not least . . . Accushift chains that match the aforementioned freewheels and cassettes.
It appears from the SfS piece, many manufactuers and dealers were unwilling to invest in entire matching Accushift gruppos, therefore the mismatched components did not work properly, resulting in the public perception that Accushift was subpar in design, when in reality, it was every bit as good as SIS (since it was probably stolen Shimano design the first year) ha ha
When putting together an Accushift "system," it is important to use Accushift gear cables and housing . . . Accushift shifters . . . matching front and rear derailleurs and properly spaced Accushift freewheels or cassettes that match the derailleurs . . . and last but not least . . . Accushift chains that match the aforementioned freewheels and cassettes.
It appears from the SfS piece, many manufactuers and dealers were unwilling to invest in entire matching Accushift gruppos, therefore the mismatched components did not work properly, resulting in the public perception that Accushift was subpar in design, when in reality, it was every bit as good as SIS (since it was probably stolen Shimano design the first year) ha ha
Anyway, my impression of the Accushift on my Puch Marco Polo is that it shifts very positively with hard clicks in the rear. My triple Suntour front derailleur works alright with the Superbe Pro retrofriction front shift lever but isn't ideal, it seems to have a lot of tension on the cable requiring a lot of force with the pull, it also requires a lot of lever travel.
On my Masi the front Superbe Pro shift lever is shifting a Dura Ace 7400 front derailleur on a Dura Ace double Dyna Drive crank and works fine. The rear on this bike doesn't index well in the Winner Pro 13-30 6 speed (new) freewheel and the XC-Expert rear derailleur and the Superbe Pro indexing 6/7 speed downtube lever set on the 7speed setting. The 6 speed "Ultra" setting worked even worse. I may just change this lever over to friction, but I resist because its like admitting failure
![Embarrassment](images/smilies/redface.gif)
I've been using the Taya Turbo chains that you can get in bulk on ebay and they work well. I do have a couple of SunTour chains an AP and an AP II new from ebay which I haven't tried yet, but I doubt they would be the difference between a functional and non-functional Accushift system.
Future projects will involve SunTour cassette hubsets built into 7 speed clincher or even tubular wheelsets. I'm not a skilled wheelbuilder and before I drop the money on these obsolete parts I want to be absolutely certain that I have sufficient extra cassettes available for whichever one ultimately gets built. The 3 choices are 1) Superbe Pro 8 speed 130mm Powerflow cassette wheel (I plan to use 7 speed cassettes and swap cogs from a 12-19 to complete the 8), 2) a MicroLite 7 speed Powerflow 126mm cassette wheel or 3) a sort of generic looking (but nice) "JG" cassette hub - 126 mm that accepts only the first gen. Accushift "AP" cogs, the ones that aren't ramped or chiseled. I've got 2 cassettes for this in a 12-26 and a 12-30 configuration. One of these 3 will probably be built up with modern clincher rims in the next year and trialed. The worse that could happen I figure is that the cogs won't satisfactorily index and may need to be run in just friction mode which I suppose isn't the end of the world. Cassette hubs are kind of interesting and desirable because of the wider cone spacing, and removing cogs for cleaning is easy and quick as well. Sorry about the long winded reply, I just started my day off and my morning coffee
![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif)
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 446
Bikes: Canondale LL Bean, Criterium; both MY Schwinn Volare's, Voyageur 11.8; Holdsworth; Bob Jackson; Raleigh Super Course Mk II and Super Course Racing USA; Trek 1500
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Suntour quality
Originally Posted by masi61
. . . The 6 speed "Ultra" setting worked even worse. I may just change this lever over to friction, but I resist because its like admitting failure
. . . .I've been using the Taya Turbo chains that you can get in bulk on ebay and they work well. I do have a couple of SunTour chains an AP and an AP II new from ebay which I haven't tried yet, but I doubt they would be the difference between a functional and non-functional Accushift system. . . .
![Embarrassment](images/smilies/redface.gif)
Masi a couple of things . . . the 6-speed "ultra" spaced free wheel is fricton only. As you discovered it won't work smoothly in index mode. The rule of thumb is index uses any 4-notched free wheels or any "alpha" free wheel. Second the Suntour chains were specifically engineered for index mode. The precision fit required is critical when indexing.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 260
Bikes: 200x Coppi w DuraAce 9, 82 Schwinn Voyager 11.2, 2004 DeBernardi Track, 83 Centurion Elite RS, and some others.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Dagnabit! You are bad, bad men. Now I've started cruising ebay for Shimano Sante components. Last time this happened, I ended up with a Vista (by Araya) with Shimano 600 Arabesque, and a Centurion Elite RS with the last non-indexing Shimano 600. That Centurion would sure look cool with those white Sante components though...
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 659
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 195 Post(s)
Liked 207 Times
in
126 Posts
Nishiki International Ole group
Thanks for all the great background info on Suntour groups. I got a Nishiki with the ole group set on CL and had no idea what I'd stumbled on to. I'm not really a fan of the white components or the cycloid chainrings but everything works perfectly so I'm not changing a thing. I've heard the group was developed in 1988 and now 1989. Which is correct? Anyway I'm having a blast on a pretty sweet riding machine. It's nice to get off the touring bike once in awhile and hot rod it.😁
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,223
Mentioned: 656 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4722 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,047 Times
in
1,882 Posts
Thanks for all the great background info on Suntour groups. I got a Nishiki with the ole group set on CL and had no idea what I'd stumbled on to. I'm not really a fan of the white components or the cycloid chainrings but everything works perfectly so I'm not changing a thing. I've heard the group was developed in 1988 and now 1989. Which is correct?....
#20
señor miembro
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 6,673
Bikes: '70s - '80s Campagnolo
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3931 Post(s)
Liked 6,581 Times
in
3,261 Posts
Bought my first Sprint rear derailleur last month for a schwinn circuit. I read somewhere the recommended max cog is 24t, but it friction shifts to a 26t with ease.
It came to me without an anchor bolt, so I used one from a cheap shimano front derailleur. It's a little tricky to first secure the cable, but it works well and looks original.
To me, the Superbe cranksets look so much nicer than the Sprint ones. Both are hard to find...
It came to me without an anchor bolt, so I used one from a cheap shimano front derailleur. It's a little tricky to first secure the cable, but it works well and looks original.
To me, the Superbe cranksets look so much nicer than the Sprint ones. Both are hard to find...
Likes For SurferRosa:
#21
Senior Member
Love these zombie threads...
Ole was born out of a misunderstanding between Suntour and West Coast Cycle/Nishiki. WCC was in Japan for product meetings, with Bob Margevicius heading up the WCC delegation. Suntour's WCC sales rep asked Margevicius something like: What could Suntour make to get more spec on WCC bikes? Margevicius, I think, took this as a general product question, and said something like: You need something upscale, with a sportier look, more like Sante. I specifically remember Bob saying, somewhat off-handedly, "You could call it, I don't know, something like Ole." He meant it generally, if you had a group like that we might be interested. Suntour took it literally, green-lit an Ole group, with Sante-like graphics, and planned it as an exclusive for WCC. The rep never followed-up and confirmed any of this with Margevicius.
Ole was birthed, and at the next WCC product meeting, the rep proudly showed Margevicius some Ole prototypes: Here's Ole, just like you asked for! How many sets do you want to order? Bob was shocked, I think it took him a few seconds to even remember he had ever suggested Ole. He basically said he never asked for the group to be made, never committed to spec'ing it. All he could give us was an "I'll think about it," and Suntour suddenly had a product they made as an exclusive for WCC that they had to find other customers for. Ole was orphaned at birth, and became a late, last-minute addition to the lineup.
I don't remember aftershock specifics, but it was too late to add Ole to printed materials that were already finalized and heading into production. It was also too late to offer it to all our OE accounts, since many had already locked up spec at Ole's price point. I think WCC put it on the International just to throw us a bone. At any rate, the Ole intro was late, scattered and bungled because Suntour, not WCC.
I never saw this as WCC backing out of a deal. It was just another Suntour "Ready!---Fire!---Aim!" maneuver. One fax to Margevicius (remember this was pre-internet, pre-email), after the first product meeting, would have clarified the situation, and either prevented Suntour from wasting time/effort/$$$, or brought WCC into a WCC-exclusive partnership that might have born fruit.
Ole was born out of a misunderstanding between Suntour and West Coast Cycle/Nishiki. WCC was in Japan for product meetings, with Bob Margevicius heading up the WCC delegation. Suntour's WCC sales rep asked Margevicius something like: What could Suntour make to get more spec on WCC bikes? Margevicius, I think, took this as a general product question, and said something like: You need something upscale, with a sportier look, more like Sante. I specifically remember Bob saying, somewhat off-handedly, "You could call it, I don't know, something like Ole." He meant it generally, if you had a group like that we might be interested. Suntour took it literally, green-lit an Ole group, with Sante-like graphics, and planned it as an exclusive for WCC. The rep never followed-up and confirmed any of this with Margevicius.
Ole was birthed, and at the next WCC product meeting, the rep proudly showed Margevicius some Ole prototypes: Here's Ole, just like you asked for! How many sets do you want to order? Bob was shocked, I think it took him a few seconds to even remember he had ever suggested Ole. He basically said he never asked for the group to be made, never committed to spec'ing it. All he could give us was an "I'll think about it," and Suntour suddenly had a product they made as an exclusive for WCC that they had to find other customers for. Ole was orphaned at birth, and became a late, last-minute addition to the lineup.
I don't remember aftershock specifics, but it was too late to add Ole to printed materials that were already finalized and heading into production. It was also too late to offer it to all our OE accounts, since many had already locked up spec at Ole's price point. I think WCC put it on the International just to throw us a bone. At any rate, the Ole intro was late, scattered and bungled because Suntour, not WCC.
I never saw this as WCC backing out of a deal. It was just another Suntour "Ready!---Fire!---Aim!" maneuver. One fax to Margevicius (remember this was pre-internet, pre-email), after the first product meeting, would have clarified the situation, and either prevented Suntour from wasting time/effort/$$$, or brought WCC into a WCC-exclusive partnership that might have born fruit.
__________________
Fuggedaboutit!
Fuggedaboutit!
#22
Thrifty Bill
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mountains of Western NC
Posts: 23,545
Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue X2, 88 Cimarron LE, 1975 Sekai 4000 Professional, 73 Paramount, plus more
Mentioned: 96 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1245 Post(s)
Liked 991 Times
in
638 Posts
FWIW, I have a 1989 +/- Nishiki International Ole. Very attractive model, made in Japan at a time much of their production had moved to Taiwan.
#24
Bianchi Goddess
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 27,938
Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.
Mentioned: 194 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2957 Post(s)
Liked 3,029 Times
in
1,542 Posts
I thought the original question was regarding the absence of complete groups where as shipmano had a dozen or so by '88/89.
I always thought since the parent company of Suntour also owned DiaCompe and SR they just used those parts to complete the group. However they were slow to recognize that consumer reports reading buyers were keenly looking for a single group from shifter to crank to to stem to toe strap buttons.
I always thought since the parent company of Suntour also owned DiaCompe and SR they just used those parts to complete the group. However they were slow to recognize that consumer reports reading buyers were keenly looking for a single group from shifter to crank to to stem to toe strap buttons.
__________________
“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
#25
Extraordinary Magnitude
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 13,655
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2610 Post(s)
Liked 1,718 Times
in
941 Posts
Love these zombie threads...
Ole was born out of a misunderstanding between Suntour and West Coast Cycle/Nishiki. WCC was in Japan for product meetings, with Bob Margevicius heading up the WCC delegation. Suntour's WCC sales rep asked Margevicius something like: What could Suntour make to get more spec on WCC bikes? Margevicius, I think, took this as a general product question, and said something like: You need something upscale, with a sportier look, more like Sante. I specifically remember Bob saying, somewhat off-handedly, "You could call it, I don't know, something like Ole." He meant it generally, if you had a group like that we might be interested. Suntour took it literally, green-lit an Ole group, with Sante-like graphics, and planned it as an exclusive for WCC. The rep never followed-up and confirmed any of this with Margevicius.
Ole was birthed, and at the next WCC product meeting, the rep proudly showed Margevicius some Ole prototypes: Here's Ole, just like you asked for! How many sets do you want to order? Bob was shocked, I think it took him a few seconds to even remember he had ever suggested Ole. He basically said he never asked for the group to be made, never committed to spec'ing it. All he could give us was an "I'll think about it," and Suntour suddenly had a product they made as an exclusive for WCC that they had to find other customers for. Ole was orphaned at birth, and became a late, last-minute addition to the lineup.
I don't remember aftershock specifics, but it was too late to add Ole to printed materials that were already finalized and heading into production. It was also too late to offer it to all our OE accounts, since many had already locked up spec at Ole's price point. I think WCC put it on the International just to throw us a bone. At any rate, the Ole intro was late, scattered and bungled because Suntour, not WCC.
I never saw this as WCC backing out of a deal. It was just another Suntour "Ready!---Fire!---Aim!" maneuver. One fax to Margevicius (remember this was pre-internet, pre-email), after the first product meeting, would have clarified the situation, and either prevented Suntour from wasting time/effort/$$$, or brought WCC into a WCC-exclusive partnership that might have born fruit.
Ole was born out of a misunderstanding between Suntour and West Coast Cycle/Nishiki. WCC was in Japan for product meetings, with Bob Margevicius heading up the WCC delegation. Suntour's WCC sales rep asked Margevicius something like: What could Suntour make to get more spec on WCC bikes? Margevicius, I think, took this as a general product question, and said something like: You need something upscale, with a sportier look, more like Sante. I specifically remember Bob saying, somewhat off-handedly, "You could call it, I don't know, something like Ole." He meant it generally, if you had a group like that we might be interested. Suntour took it literally, green-lit an Ole group, with Sante-like graphics, and planned it as an exclusive for WCC. The rep never followed-up and confirmed any of this with Margevicius.
Ole was birthed, and at the next WCC product meeting, the rep proudly showed Margevicius some Ole prototypes: Here's Ole, just like you asked for! How many sets do you want to order? Bob was shocked, I think it took him a few seconds to even remember he had ever suggested Ole. He basically said he never asked for the group to be made, never committed to spec'ing it. All he could give us was an "I'll think about it," and Suntour suddenly had a product they made as an exclusive for WCC that they had to find other customers for. Ole was orphaned at birth, and became a late, last-minute addition to the lineup.
I don't remember aftershock specifics, but it was too late to add Ole to printed materials that were already finalized and heading into production. It was also too late to offer it to all our OE accounts, since many had already locked up spec at Ole's price point. I think WCC put it on the International just to throw us a bone. At any rate, the Ole intro was late, scattered and bungled because Suntour, not WCC.
I never saw this as WCC backing out of a deal. It was just another Suntour "Ready!---Fire!---Aim!" maneuver. One fax to Margevicius (remember this was pre-internet, pre-email), after the first product meeting, would have clarified the situation, and either prevented Suntour from wasting time/effort/$$$, or brought WCC into a WCC-exclusive partnership that might have born fruit.
I've read the "back out" story...
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.