Elantr025

Hello,

As several members, maybe know, earlier today I posted here with advice on my first
dream steel bike. And I have another question....

Is the option of a lugged steel frame vs a basic welded price really worth the upgrade
and extra money, or is lugged really purely cosmetic? Does one or the other effect the
ride quality of the bike at all?

I certainly LOVE the looked of a lugged steel frame, but this option might indeed push
me way past my $3250.00 budget!

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks

zitter

It was discussed for a bit in this thread, bottom of second and most of third

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...at-heavy/page2

johnny99

Cheap steel is not worth the cost vs. aluminum. Expensive steel is very nice.

DRietz

There really is no structural/strength advantage to a lugged steel frame over a welded frame besides elegance. I ride a TIG-welded SOMA Smoothie Road Race and it's quite a nice bike.

I'd go with steel over aluminum any day of the week.

Jed19

While no difference in ride quality between lugged and TIG welded steel, keep in mind that a lugged steel bike is more aesthetically pleasing to the eye. Might also have better resale value.

Also, were you to crash your bike, it is gonna be easier to replace tubes at lugs.

redfooj

all cosmetic


but it looks prettier, so i have them

canam73

I ride lugged steel and have ridden some welded frames. I couldn't detect any differences that couldn't be attributed to geometry or wheels/tires. Jed19 brings up a valid point about replacing tubes, but depending on what frames your talking about the lugged can cost nearly double to start with. I just liked the look and was patient for good deals. If you want to see a cheaper lugged frame check out the Soma Stanyan. Although I think you were looking domestic production and Somas are imported.

Velo Dog

Just what I was going to say. I have several bikes, aluminum and steel, but my favorites are an Atlantis, a Rambouillet and an old ('80s) Trek converted to singlespeed. They all happen to be lugged steel, and if i ever buy another one (doubtful; I have enough to see me on in), it will be steel, too. I don't know for sure that the lugs make any difference except in looks and repairabiity (you can replace individual tubes pretty easily). From the standpoint of feel and perceived performance, though, I just like steel better than anything else.

pdedes

at the joints, the heat affected zone in a welded steel bike is smaller than that of a brazed/lugged frame. that said, silver-brazing uses less heat than brass brazing.

urbanknight

Although true, are the OP's options different types of steel? You can have expensive lugged and expensive welded.

mazdaspeed

Why not just get a high end vintage frame?

Dave Kirk 

If you are comparing two steel bikes - one tigged and the other lugged - and they are both put together by builders who know what they are doing AND they are built with the same tubes then you should end up with two bikes that feel the same. To put it in the most overly simple way - once the pipes are hooked together they don't care how they are hooked together.

The weight should be very similar (lugs add a small amount of weight - much of which can be offset but using thinner tubes that can be silvered together)

The stiffness should be the same.

The fatigue resistance will be a bit better with lugs (but properly built either should outlast you).

They should be very, very similar in strength (again - built well it's a non-issue either way).

If the same tubes are used in the same design the ride will be the same.

They look different.


I say get the one that makes you smile. Life is too short to get something and wish you had something else. Buy the lugs because they look good to you or buy the tig because you love the welder's mark and want to save a few bucks. You really can't go wrong if you follow your instincts. Just buy one from someone you trust and either way you'll end up with a great bike.

And..... enjoy the process.

Dave

BengeBoy 

The thing about the Internet is you always have someone spouting off like they know something.


Oh.


Wait a minute...sometimes they do....

https://www.kirkframeworks.com/

milliron

I much prefer my mid level Ridley carbon bike to my lugged steel De Rosa Neo Primato. The Ridley is stiffer, more comfortable on rough roads (less vibration), lighter and less expensive. The De Rosa sits in a closet and I'll not be buying another steel frame.

Jed19

I have owned steel, aluminum and carbon bikes. I prefer carbon. I should point out though, that I have not owned a very high-end steel frame, so I can't really opine on those. I think it has to do with what your goals are when selecting a frame. My typical rides are about 65-70miles on weekends, and they are strictly speedy/exercise kinda of rides. For those, carbon is extremely comfortable and efficient.

I sure like looking at beautiful steel and Ti frames, but I doubt I'll find them efficient for my kinda rides.

jermso

and sometimes others might know better

https://www.strongframes.com/more_stuff/choose/

"Brazing and TIG welding are of equivalent practical value. Meaning both will have the same strength and durability as long as a builder with experience does them correctly. The choice is aesthetic and monetary. Fillet brazed frames are more expensive than TIG because they require more finish work and in the case of lugged frames more prep work. TIG frames take less time to build and are typically a bit less expensive as a result. Lug frames are usually restricted to certain frame types because the lugs are only available in certain socket sizes and angles. TIG and Fillet has infinite flexibly and Ti and aluminum can only be TIG welded. So if the frame you want is aluminum or Ti you can eliminate all the Brazed construction builders, if you want classic lugged steel you can eliminate all the TIG builders."

Barrettscv 

Yes, It's nice to hear a solid opinion for a change. I have two lugged frames, properly made of Reynolds 531. I also have a tig-welded frame made with Tange Prestige. The small differences have nothing to do with lugs or not.









The OP should not worry about lugged frames or welded frames. Consider fit, geometry and tube quality when selecting.

Michael

Barrettscv 

Don't be so sure, many builders, including Waterford, build both style frames.

patentcad

Steel blows.

Next question.

Barrettscv 

Yes, but does it blow as hard as you?

patentcad

Hard to say.

I've had 4 steel bikes. One was passable. The others sucked.

Trucker Dan

I have a 1984 531 trek 720 . Its flexy, buzzy, and generally rides like crap. I never understood all the steel love. Then I picked up a 1990 slx derosa for cheep. The ride was amazing. It was laterally stiff yet vertically compliant. It was better than sex.
Moral of the story: All steel is not created equal and steel bikes need to have italian magic applied to them to be worth a crap.

Barrettscv 

But was the issue frame material or something else?

Steel bikes have tremendous merit for many types of cycling. Is it the best material for all kinds of riding, no. Are steel bikes always junk, hardly.

See: https://www.colnago.com/bikes/2011/master-x-light

Michael

Dave Kirk 

I don't disagree with what Carl says in the slightest............. in fact it appears we are saying the same thing.

Dave

blacksquid

Pegoretti, he have the magic!