1972 Gitane Tour de France
02-27-13, 07:46 AM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
1972 Gitane Tour de France
Is it worth the price? It's less than a mile from my work
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-All-Ori...51001357256%26
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-All-Ori...51001357256%26
02-27-13, 08:19 AM
#2
Still learning
Sharp looking bike. It's one of those you'd never want out of your site. I'm curious about the Campagnolo wheels, as typically French bikes pretty much had all French components, but I am not a Gitane expert. Wait for TMar or Chombi to weigh in, they're the French bike experts.
I'd say the seller is about 20-25% over FMV, considering what PX10s and similar other 531's are going for, but condition is everything.
I'd say the seller is about 20-25% over FMV, considering what PX10s and similar other 531's are going for, but condition is everything.
02-27-13, 09:11 AM
#3
Senior Member
I sold Gitane during the boom and this one is sending up some flags with respect to orginality. Campagnolo hubs were a factory option but the rims were tubular and these appear to clincher which was a common aftermarket modification. Regardless, the rims aren't matched, so the're not OEM. The forks were half painted. The standard crankset was a Stronglight 93, though we've seen quite a few with Sugino and there's been some buzz about possible distributor substitution due to shortages and or defects. Still, until there's some solid proof, everybody is going to consider Stronglight as OEM.
Personally, I find market pricing on these French, mid-range models to be too high, but this one is ridiculous, even though it appears to be in very nice condition. Let's face it, outside of the tubing, tubular wheels and crankset, these bicycles weren't much above your typical entry level model. Personally, I think this one is about double what the average market value should be. Even taking into account that you're in a hot market, with spring rapidly approaching, I still think it's about 35% overpriced. But be advised that I'm constantly being criticized for undervaluing on boom era, French models.
Personally, I find market pricing on these French, mid-range models to be too high, but this one is ridiculous, even though it appears to be in very nice condition. Let's face it, outside of the tubing, tubular wheels and crankset, these bicycles weren't much above your typical entry level model. Personally, I think this one is about double what the average market value should be. Even taking into account that you're in a hot market, with spring rapidly approaching, I still think it's about 35% overpriced. But be advised that I'm constantly being criticized for undervaluing on boom era, French models.
02-27-13, 09:25 AM
#4
Thrifty Bill
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+1 To TMar, and just one pic? Seller needs to take an ebay marketing class. Lousy ad, with one mediocre picture + high shipping + real high price = dreamland.
Last edited by wrk101; 02-27-13 at 09:51 AM.
02-27-13, 06:13 PM
#6
Senior Member
I sold Gitane during the boom and this one is sending up some flags with respect to orginality. Campagnolo hubs were a factory option but the rims were tubular and these appear to clincher which was a common aftermarket modification. Regardless, the rims aren't matched, so the're not OEM. The forks were half painted. The standard crankset was a Stronglight 93, though we've seen quite a few with Sugino and there's been some buzz about possible distributor substitution due to shortages and or defects. Still, until there's some solid proof, everybody is going to consider Stronglight as OEM.
Personally, I find market pricing on these French, mid-range models to be too high, but this one is ridiculous, even though it appears to be in very nice condition. Let's face it, outside of the tubing, tubular wheels and crankset, these bicycles weren't much above your typical entry level model. Personally, I think this one is about double what the average market value should be. Even taking into account that you're in a hot market, with spring rapidly approaching, I still think it's about 35% overpriced. But be advised that I'm constantly being criticized for undervaluing on boom era, French models.
Personally, I find market pricing on these French, mid-range models to be too high, but this one is ridiculous, even though it appears to be in very nice condition. Let's face it, outside of the tubing, tubular wheels and crankset, these bicycles weren't much above your typical entry level model. Personally, I think this one is about double what the average market value should be. Even taking into account that you're in a hot market, with spring rapidly approaching, I still think it's about 35% overpriced. But be advised that I'm constantly being criticized for undervaluing on boom era, French models.
I've had several of these come through my workshop. All had Campagnolo Tipo hubs w/tubular rims.
I think the Sugino cranks may have an advantage as far as replacing worn rings easily. The Simplex derailleurs are top notch. The Mafac Competition brakes are great. These are nice riding racing bikes.
Am I on the C&V forum?
Price is a bit high, but if this is the bike you're really looking for, I'd go for it.
02-27-13, 08:25 PM
#7
Vello Kombi, baby
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Quite likely a replacement fork, which is a major red flag to me. Value would top out about 400$ or so, and that assumes original fork. I'm uncertain on the fork's provenance-- every TDF I've seen had half chromed forks, so I'd be looking very carefully at this bike were it offered to me.
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02-27-13, 08:43 PM
#8
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If the fork is original and it is in really nice condition, $5 0 0 is a fair price. If the fork is a replacement, the value is half that. I've had a near NOS that came with Tipo hubs and Sugino cranks. FWIW, the ride on these is pretty spectacular.....
02-27-13, 09:10 PM
#9
Senior Member
Quite likely a replacement fork, which is a major red flag to me. Value would top out about 400$ or so, and that assumes original fork. I'm uncertain on the fork's provenance-- every TDF I've seen had half chromed forks, so I'd be looking very carefully at this bike were it offered to me.
The Sugino cranks probably are original but with French threaded pedal holes.
The Tipo hubs are also most likely original but as advised earlier, the rims are not. Original were Mavic tubulars.
Even if it is nearby, this is not the one to purchase.
02-27-13, 10:07 PM
#10
Constant tinkerer
+1 One picture in the ad? What is the seller thinking???
Fork is suspect and components are really mismatched. Price might make sense if original, but this bike is really far from. Pass. Value is less than half the asking price IMO.
Fork is suspect and components are really mismatched. Price might make sense if original, but this bike is really far from. Pass. Value is less than half the asking price IMO.
02-28-13, 06:06 AM
#11
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I got $550.00 plus shipping for my '76 a couple years ago and it wasn't all original but at least mine had it's fork.
02-28-13, 08:08 AM
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
If I were to test it out and liked it what would be a good offer? I was going to pass but now I'm wondering if I could get him into the $300's the bike would make an awesome commuter and long weekend rider. (I've read these are comfy long haul bikes)
I know that's half the asking price but that guy lists multiple ads all over and some vary by hundreds. Example-He had a Paramount listed for $1500 and also listed it on craigslist for $800 so it may not be unreasonable to offer half or less.
I know that's half the asking price but that guy lists multiple ads all over and some vary by hundreds. Example-He had a Paramount listed for $1500 and also listed it on craigslist for $800 so it may not be unreasonable to offer half or less.
02-28-13, 08:59 AM
#13
Looks to me like the fork may actually be OE - the crown is right, and they were all chrome under the paint. Considering that everything else looks original, 'cept the brake shoes... If it was my size I'd be sorely tempted. Oh, and I had two TdF's bitd. Both came with Tipo hubs OE. Wish I still had the bigger one.
SP
OC, OR
SP
OC, OR
02-28-13, 09:04 AM
#14
Still learning
Print out this page with "thread tools", take it with you and good luck! You can tell the seller these guys buy and sell bikes quicker than the Redskins change coaches.
Good luck!
Good luck!
02-28-13, 09:05 AM
#15
Senior Member
Offer him what its worth to you. I would not worry about offering too low, he will just say no if its not what he needs. I cannot see the saddle well enough, but the 72's in the midwest came with Ideal 90's with the alloy frames, that saddle appears to have a steel frame, but I cannot tell the model nor make. Thats probably not an issue though, as there lots of substitutions going on back then.
02-28-13, 01:16 PM
#16
Senior Member
Say What? Not much above an entry level? They're full 531.
I've had several of these come through my workshop. All had Campagnolo Tipo hubs w/tubular rims.
I think the Sugino cranks may have an advantage as far as replacing worn rings easily. The Simplex derailleurs are top notch. The Mafac Competition brakes are great. These are nice riding racing bikes.
Am I on the C&V forum?
Price is a bit high, but if this is the bike you're really looking for, I'd go for it.
I've had several of these come through my workshop. All had Campagnolo Tipo hubs w/tubular rims.
I think the Sugino cranks may have an advantage as far as replacing worn rings easily. The Simplex derailleurs are top notch. The Mafac Competition brakes are great. These are nice riding racing bikes.
Am I on the C&V forum?
Price is a bit high, but if this is the bike you're really looking for, I'd go for it.
Now let's look at the big differences. Yes, it's got a 531 frame but it's still a mass volume frame. The fork may be a stripped original or it may be a replacement. Even if it OEM, you've lost the paint and the proof via the 531 decal. Big deduction.
The wheels have mismatched rims and don't appear to be tubulars. While they not steel clinchers they're also not tubulars. Another deduction. Mismatched is a further deduction.
Finally there's the crankset. Maybe the Sugino has advantages for ring replacement (and using a standard puller), and maybe it is OEM but it's not what was cataloged and more importantly, not what buyers expect on a mid-range, boom era, French bicycle. I think this is the biggest deduction of all.
I readily acknowledge that I price the French, boom era models lower than almost everybody else on this forum. Strangley, the is seems to be one case where I have quite a few members agreeing with me.
02-28-13, 06:17 PM
#17
Senior Member
Say What? Not much above an entry level? They're full 531.
I've had several of these come through my workshop. All had Campagnolo Tipo hubs w/tubular rims.
I think the Sugino cranks may have an advantage as far as replacing worn rings easily. The Simplex derailleurs are top notch. The Mafac Competition brakes are great. These are nice riding racing bikes.
Am I on the C&V forum?
Price is a bit high, but if this is the bike you're really looking for, I'd go for it.
I've had several of these come through my workshop. All had Campagnolo Tipo hubs w/tubular rims.
I think the Sugino cranks may have an advantage as far as replacing worn rings easily. The Simplex derailleurs are top notch. The Mafac Competition brakes are great. These are nice riding racing bikes.
Am I on the C&V forum?
Price is a bit high, but if this is the bike you're really looking for, I'd go for it.
Now let's look at the big differences. Yes, it's got a 531 frame but it's still a mass volume frame. The fork may be a stripped original or it may be a replacement. Even if it OEM, you've lost the paint and the proof via the 531 decal. Big deduction.
The wheels have mismatched rims and don't appear to be tubulars. While they not steel clinchers they're also not tubulars. Another deduction. Mismatched is a further deduction.
Finally there's the crankset. Maybe the Sugino has advantages for ring replacement (and using a standard puller), and maybe it is OEM but it's not what was cataloged and more importantly, not what buyers expect on a mid-range, boom era, French bicycle. I think this is the biggest deduction of all.
I readily acknowledge that I price the French, boom era models lower than almost everybody else on this forum. Strangley, the is seems to be one case where I have quite a few members agreeing with me.
03-01-13, 02:09 PM
#19
Senior Member
03-01-13, 04:52 PM
#21
Senior Member
